MIL & SIL want more.

[ThisWildHedgehog]

I’ve been married around 10 years and have 2 young children.

We see MIL & FIL at least every other week, sometimes more. When we visit, they don’t particularly “get involved” by that I mean they keep Cash in the Attic blaring and neither of them will move from their chairs to play or interact with the kids at any point.

When we leave, it’s a relief, and DH and I both feel the visits are hard work (their home is not remotely baby-proofed). They are also very critical of all of us.

We see all of the uncles and aunts infrequently, maybe a handful of times a year. MIL & SIL have a very close relationship and SIL is lonely. She’s the type of person who would want to text daily and probably see us and the kids multiple times a week. The thing is, both DH and I are not like that. We keep busy and don’t have the time. The time I do have, I’d honestly prefer to spend seeing other people because I have very little in common with SIL and find her emotionally intense. I also feel it would be unfair to my own siblings if I saw her significantly more just because she was the “pushy” one.

Things have now got to the point where MIL is texting me to arrange seeing SIL. If I don’t reply to daily texts, I get prompted. When we visit, conversations are often drawn back to how left out SIL feels (despite the fact she sees the kids more than any other aunt or uncle, so I don’t really understand it). It’s just become awkward. SIL is close to 40, so it feels bizarre to me that her mum is effectively setting up playdates for her. It just makes me feel really uncomfortable.

My husband has tried to talk to his mum and reset the narrative back to reality, as well as express healthy boundaries, but honestly it feels pointless because the next day it starts up again.

When we do visit, MIL will say things to the kids like, “your mummy keeps you from me” or “I never get to see you”. From my perspective she sees the kids a lot and also doesn’t seem to make use of the time she does get. (I’ll add that I’m actually the one prompting DH to visit, so her perception of me feels entirely wrong.)

MIL also makes comments that the kids “aren’t affectionate enough” with her, which I find difficult because I’m not really sure what else we’re supposed to do to facilitate that. DH has gently suggested things like turning the TV off, playing with them, talking to them more, or reading to them (my children absolutely adore books, but sadly neither IL has ever read to them). We do bring the kids regularly, surely a relationship develops through interaction? I don’t know how else to help.

She has now started recording 90% of the time we are there on her phone. I’m talking about me just sat around on the floor playing with the kids and even… recording me while I breastfeed. It feels awkward for her to sit silently unengaged filming me for such long periods of time with no real reason?

I just feel so lost. I’m trying to be a kind DIL, but nothing I do is ever enough, emotionally it’s taking its toll.

What can I do? Should I visit more and text more?

Sorry I clicked YABU by mistake - you are not!

Stop these bloody calls for one. Recording you? I have a lovely relationship with my MIL. I certainly have never, in 18 years, had a conversation with her on the phone/facetime/whatever. No more of that. Dh can facilitate if he’s keen.

Stop with the regular SIL visits or see her on occasion with IL only. Two birds with one stone.

I would leave Dh to facilitate all visits. Go a few times a year to show your face. Otherwise, his parents, his organising. Meet them out for days out only, cafe, playground, children’s farm, so they are forced to interact. That may take the wind out of their sails anyway. This is not your job. You can set this one down. Dh’s job now.

@ThisWildHedgehog WTH! Everything you have written about them is odious. Please don't go back there. Ever.

No, you go NC because they're emotionally abusing the DC, being manipulative towards OP and doing illegal things like recording a partially naked OP. That's more than enough reason to cut them out. These are in-laws. Their own son has no interest in seeing them because of their batshit behaviour and bad attitude.

OP you need to take your DHs lead. Google about flying monkeys in relation to narcissism. You are a flying monkey in n this scenario. DH doesn't want to see them and you're helping them orchestrate these visits, pushing him and DC into it. I know you don't mean any harm but your behaviour is harmful all the same, none of your nuclear family benefits from these visits at all.

If the in-laws were nice people the benefit would be in seeing them for their company. Even your eldest DC has a basic subconscious understanding that something is wrong and she doesn't want to be there, don't normalise ignoring her instincts by keeping her there. Or she'll grow up as messed up as you, a people-pleaser trying to have relationships with toxic fucked up people, which is what your in-laws are. MIL sounds totally selfish and self centered and SIL sounds like a case of failure-to-launch, maybe MIL is training her into the role of carer for MILs old age. To stop SIL going off and making friends like any other adult would, MIL appears to be trying to insert SIL into your nuclear family, as if SIL were an adult DC of yours with learning disabilities who you were still responsible for into adulthood. It's utterly mad. SIL is enmeshed, MIL is trying to get you enmeshed too that's why all the messages are coming to you. It's not normal to see people you don't even like as often as this.

Don't waste your life having bad relationships, see your friends and other relatives who you actually like instead, that's far healthier for your nuclear family to foster relationships with other healthy people. Leave the batshit ones alone.

If they want to see you they can work on themselves and become people who others enjoy seeing (they won't do this, preferring to blame everyone else for how they feel). They're lonely because anyone sane and normal with healthy habits and boundaries leaves horrid people like them alone and stays away. You should too.

"Stop filming me or we're leaving. Now."

I can't believe you just sat there and let them film you breastfeeding. Madness.

When we do visit, MIL will say things to the kids like, “your mummy keeps you from me” or “I never get to see you”.
Your DH needs to say, 'Stop saying that,' firmly and calmly. Every time. If he's not in the room you say it. Ignore any arguing or whining back. That's not acceptable.
Ignore 'prompts' about texting your SIL. If MIL brings it up, your DH again needs to tell her, firmly but calmly, to give it a rest.
But all this is moot really, because I wouldn't go to see anyone who sat and recorded, in lieu of interacting with, my kids, or me breastfeeding.

They are playing you like a harp and they just aren't able to stop. They will take a mile for every inch you give. You will never satisfy them.

Don't be their slave.

This!

WTF? I think most people understand the basic principle of building a relationship with a child involves spending time interacting with a child - otherwise you can spend all day every day together and the child won't have a relationship with you, they'll ignore you.

I think the only possibility of building a relationship that actually works (and it's a very slim chance) is to start being very upfront and blunt in as non judgmental way as possible (which is hard, because you are judging, but keep it to the way it affects you, not about them in general).

So when MiL says you don't come round so much tell her "we don't really like coming here, it's noisy, you criticise us all the time, you take no interest in the kids and you videoed me breastfeeding last time. Turn off the telly, be nice to us, play with the kids and we're likely to come more."

When you DC comes to you with his shoes after 10 minutes, say something like "Ah, bored already? That's not the way to do it, but we'll go in a few minutes." Then finish your tea/conversation, etc. and go. If MiL says you've only just arrived tell her you know, but what does she expect with how she treats DC? (Maybe give him a different way of signaling to you when he wants to go too - because you don't really want to encourage that sort of direct behaviour as normal. It may be appropriate with your PiL because they won't listen to anything else, but sounds like your DC are too young to understand that).

When she or SiL talk about her feeling left out say - "I don't dislike SiL, but she's not my friend and we don't get on well. It's not my job to make her feel included."

Most likely they won't take any of it onboard, but even if they don't it makes your boundaries clear and gives you a solid way of enforcing them. Maybe it will prompt an emotional conversation where, though they are upset about how you're treating them, they actually listen to what you say and try to meet you half way.

(Although AnneLovesGilbert's advice is probably what I'd actually do).

Just to respond the comments about the breastfeeding/recording. I was completely caught off guard, shocked and embarrassed. It hadn’t happened before and I genuinely didn’t know how to react in the moment. Although I didn’t directly say anything to MIL, I did immediately stop feeding, get up and ask DH if we could leave. I wish I’d been confident enough to say “stop filming me,” but I froze.

👏

Your reaction was normal. The "fight or flight" response to panic actually includes freeze, fawn (befriend) and flop (play dead) too.

Getting up and leaving was great. Thank goodness you didn't accept it.
It is absolutely batshit behaviour.
Would you want them filming your children if you weren't there?

I really think this is the perfect opportunity to completely step back and take space.

Use this incident as a deal breaker and tell your husband it was a huge UNFORGIVABLE violation of you and you need time and space before you see them again.

Use this incident to change the toxic dynamics and enforce what you want.

I certainly wouldn't be entertaining her texts about SIL going forward.

Too many women are ground down by inlaws.
Far healthier to say "that's YOUR family, YOU sort them out".....and mean it.

I’m sure it’s more a case of ‘can’t be arsed to leave their house’, rather than any actual malady.

That was my assumption but we all know about assumptions….

That’s a bit mental, i must say.

There’s so much bollocks, in your post, I don’t know where to start.

You need to visit less and communicate less. Their behaviour is bizarre.

I completely get this. I fear I’d also pretend it wasn’t happening and then immediately leave in silence.
It sounds like the only thing to do is to actually back off from them now, do not visit more or give in to their demands regarding SIL.
DH can visit by himself.
If they question where you are he can say “well she caught you filming her while breastfeeding, so why would she want to come back?”.

If you want to maintain some form of relationship, I’d stick to inviting them to your house. It’s in their court then whether they accept.

No contact 😂😂 how dramatic

This is a very dysfunctional dynamic, @ThisWildHedgehog .

Your PiL want all the interaction with you and your family on THEIR terms, and that is not how healthy relationships work.

I would completely step back and let your DH handle communications with them - they're his parents, after all!

And I would not be visiting them any more until a healthier dynamic has been established.

This would include:

• MiL does not criticise you to your children; - - they actually interact/play with your DC when they are with them;
• they do NOT film you unless you specifically agree (eg a child blowing out birthday candles);
• they do not badger you regarding your SiL;
• they visit you at your home, or meet somewhere (park, playground, cafe etc).

It is up to your DH to establish these 'ground rules'.

If they won't agree, that's on them, and you need not feel at all guilty about not seeing them.

Your DC obviously does not feel comfortable in their house, and has no real relationship with them as PiL do not engage with them at all, so don't feel guilty at depriving your DC of time with their GP.

Good luck! 💐

@ThisWildHedgehog Please Please Please listen to your very young child who brings you her shoes to leave after 10 minutes!!!!! Even she is picking up on the fact that this is NOT NORMAL.

I think you sound like a very kind person who wants to do the right thing, like someone who has been brought up in a reasonably loving family. You've been taught to respect your elders, and to be polite and kind to family.

This is all laudable when you are dealing with people who treat you in the same way. An idea, which will go against the grain of your upbringing but which you need to protect yourself is that the first, the very first people you should be kind to are yourself, and your DC and DH.

It's not even filming you whilst you are breast feeding... MIL is filming you 90 per cent of the time. WTF? Why? What does she do with these videos? There is zero point making polite hints or looking disapproving with people like that. They need it spelt out to them calmly and without being deterred that they need to STOP. It is not unkind or damaging good relationships to stand up to them.
You've already said that she bitches and complains that YOU personally are "keeping the children from her" You know that this is a bare faced lie. You are visiting nearly every week for heaven's sake... desperate to avoid that accusation. She does all this to make you try even harder to placate her. So much so, that you are not spending time with enough relatives and people who do love and appreciate you. You don't deserve this.

I completely understand how this happens, you want to be (as you've been brought up to be) a good DIL and facilitate good family relations. But that does not work, they use that good intention to make you obey them. You have to stop. And you are also so shocked by the way they treat you and the rude things they say and the way they just want the children in the house but ignore them... that it is upsetting and hard to find the right words to challenge them on the spot because to you that would feel really rude and final because you know there will be an almighty kick off if you do and you will be accused of whatever.

Unfortunately, unless you do challenge them and stop complying with what are effectively their instructions, they are going to continue and probably make even more unacceptable demands. And giving in to those demands is NOT going to make them like you any better. I promise you that! They don't have that mindset. It will just encourage them to make the next demand. It is not unkind to put your own family unit first before the wants of demanding overbearing people. You don't want your DC to grow up thinking this is normal behaviour.
Also, unless something changes they are pushing you into going NC. So it is not being unkind to set your boundaries. And leave the rest up to DH. Also he needs to experience some of the wierdness you are getting and is better placed to shut down lies about you.

There's been a lot of good advice on this thread about letting your DH (who fortunately is backing you up) deal directly with them, and Seeing a lot less of them, in shorter bursts and see more of the relatives you get on with ( a place where your DD wont bring you her shoes to leave).
Offer to meet them in neutral places like the park or a cafe etc.
And have some pre prepared phrases up your sleeve to shut down any rude comments calmly and firmly. Give yourself the option of calmly getting up and walking out, eg if filming etc (have the keys in your pocket, the kids coats and gear already in the car.) even if you don't actually do it. It's a way of telling yourself, I don't have to put with this.
Give yourself permission to stand up for yourself and stop worrying about what other people may think. You should be enjoying this time when your children are young... not getting a weekly dose of stress and wierd behaviour.
How dare they!!!

I liked @Mangochutney33 's advice

"Don't waste your life having bad relationships, see your friends and other relatives who you actually like instead, that's far healthier for your nuclear family to foster relationships with other healthy people. Leave the batshit ones alone."