To ask how to cope with a kid who is just so irritating?

[roamfarandwide]

I feel horrible saying this but I am on my last nerve with my five year old. I find him so irritating and I’m sure he must sense it and it must impact his self esteem.

Constant talking. A lot of it makes virtually no sense - I’m sure it does to him but it’s this stream of consciousness that is hard to decipher … he was wittering about these ‘three tigers and if they said no then they’d be there but if they didn’t then they would wouldn’t they mummy …’ and it’s almost always when I’m trying to get everybody ready or dealing with something else and I just don’t have the time to stand there and ask leading questions to work out what he’s on about. I was trying to leave for work the other day and he was just stood there wittering about something … horrible I know.

The noise, my god. So loud. Yes of course I’ve asked him nicely to make less noise. Sometimes he does for seconds later it to start again. He was playing some game this morning involving throwing a large monster truck around in the room with wooden floors and all I can hear is crash bang crash … just so wearing.

Stupid behaviour … nearly had to take him home from a party last week for throwing ketchup around.

Winding sibling up and making her scream. Messy and leaving things lying around.

I do work on it. I really try hard to address the behaviours. But the problem is I’m constantly on at him, I mean all the time. (and doing the ‘tell him what he should be doing’ doesn’t work - he often needs telling really firmly and sharply to knock it off.)

I feel horrible.

Omg I'm going to buy this!

He sounds a lot like my nine year old (and his 4 and 7 yo sisters tbh).

I treat him a bit like an energetic dog and throw him outside to run around at every opportunity (and he’s not a sporty child - but he’ll mess about with sticks, climb, fight imaginary foe etc). As for being annoying, it was around when he hit 8 that I realised why that was the traditional age that boys were sent away to school (and I wouldn’t do that but I get it) - put them all together in one place with keepers until they learn at least some civility 😂

I don’t think he will sense it. Just make sure you love him and give him all the affection he needs and if you do show your irritation just explain at a neutral time that it is your impatience (there are days I’m doing this about every 10 minutes) and not a reflection on your feelings for him.

But you are normal, it won’t damage him. Just do your best.

Get him on the waitlist for an assessment. He may have something like ADHD, he may not, but you're going to be waiting years to have him assessed so better to start the ball rolling now rather than delaying and problems getting worse in the next couple of years and then you're starting from the beginning.

The problem with saying "he's probably fine, just annoying" and "why rush to assume ND?" is that, if there is any chance he does have it, there are very good reasons to have him assessed so you can figure out tools to break the negative parenting/behavioural cycles that often develop when children have undiagnosed ND.

Things to bear in mind:

• Children with ADHD are often criticised and corrected much more often than their NT peers - it is estimated that they receive around 20,000 more negative messages by age 12.
• Their parents often parent in a harsher, more critical and less physically involved and emotionally supportive way.
• Simultaneously, children with ADHD often have heightened emotional sensitivity to criticism and internalize it much more deeply than NT children.

It's not hard to see how these factors can lead to a completely disastrous cycle that results in an unhappy, shamed-filled childhood for children with undiagnosed ADHD. They are criticised more often, it affects them more deeply, they act out in response, and then yet more criticism comes. If not addressed, it can have deep social, emotional and even physical consequences (due to frequent/prolonged stress).

So in your place, I'd look into this as a priority but also consider what can be done in the meantime to minimise the negative messages that your child is exposed to. Some things we do:

• I focus on doing things with my kids that I enjoy too, in situations which minimise sensory overload. We get out of the house everyday and go to places where we can climb stuff, for example. I enjoy doing physical play with them at playgrounds and in the park, so that's one way we bond.
• We put music on in the kitchen quite a lot when cleaning and tidying and have a 'dance party', which reduces the overwhelm. I also block my kids out with headphones/music when I'm overwhelmed.
• We do homework and reading out of the house (in a cafe or even sat on the grass outside school) rather than bringing it home. This might help when school demands increase for your DC.
• I take my kids out individually every couple of weeks or so to do an activity they enjoy, which gives me a chance to focus on one child at a time.
• I try to hug them/pick them up/physically connect with them several times a day and am always randomly telling them how much I love them.

@roamfarandwide i sympathise!!!
last year my 4yo’s constant verbal diarrhea sent me into a full blown panic attack.
it was hell. I am more strict now about the noise because frankly it’s living hell for everyone in the house. From the moment he wakes up until bedtime, there is a constant stream of noise. I have to have every single conversation with this in the background and honestly I dread the weekends when I know it will be two days of it. He’s better out of the house but even on his bike or whatever he is making sounds / noises / being silly. I think it’s normal at that age unfortunately. School sing his praises; he is over achieving for his age. But god the noise.

It's perfectly ok to tell a 5yo - as firmly and as sharply as necessary - that he's not allowed to throw things (toys, ketchup, anything) indoors (irrespective of flooring type). He's old enough to understand that and it's a totally reasonable standard to have. It's also ok to respond to him when he's talking sense and let it wash over you when he isn't. That's part of how kids learn to talk - they learn that if they want other people to engage with them, they need to communicate in a way others can understand. Don't be so hard on yourself. Five is old enough to have an understanding of what other people find annoying and to not do it (that's how it works at school, after all). Old enough to understand that other people have feelings too and to develop the habit of consideration. You're not being cruel in teaching him that.

Your last part about hanging off furniture stood out to me. Sounds like he’s seeking proprioceptive feedback. If hanging upside down off a chair helps calm him then guide him to do that or other activities that will give his body what it needs like pushing against a wall or jumping on a trampoline (if you have space for one). Read up on proprioception and ask him what he notices feels good for him. You can make it a game rather than a series of exercises.

Please don't beat yourself up. Parenting is pretty challenging!

My young GS talked non-stop - a sort of stream of consciousness - sometimes a running commentary, sometimes a flight of fancy. It was pretty irritating (but sweet?!). He is 10 now and does not do it - it lasted about a year. Brace yourself!

The balance between patience (which we all aspire to) and a child learning that you can push people so far and they they flip is a difficult one. He will gradually learn acceptable social behaviours and limits, but it won't happen overnight.

I would hesitate to seek a label for him at this stage. He sounds pretty normal to me.

This was absolutely my first thought - it came during the stream of consciousness seemingly starting in the middle of the story. (It started in his brain and he has absolutely no idea he didn’t tell you the first part). I’m 50 snd stil do these same 😂

He sounds normal, and so do you, and your reactions! Sending virtual support and kindness to you, OP. A lot of kids calm down as they get older. Echo what others have said about long walks/run arounds outdoors and also - ESPECIALLY - get time for yourself when you can.

You are describing my adult DS who has autism and ADHD. The constant talking, totally random conversations, excess energy. He is a bit toned down since his meds now cause a bit less whirring of the brain. I would get your DS checked for both conditions.

Sounds like he's desperate for good attention to me. Sign of the times that so many jump to ADHD diagnosis.

I hear that you feel it's too early to think about ADHD yet, but having to tell him repeatedly to get OFF the table or to not throw his monster truck on the wooden floor (how is the floor doing, by the way? Monster truck projectiles can be hard on wood), does sound a bit ADHD-ish. Even by 5, and even with boys, many of them by this point are calm enough and have good enough listening abilities to hear you the first time you tell them to get off the table. If you are constantly having to repeat simple instructions that are related to rather basic behavioral boundaries, then this makes me wonder if he has strong hyperactive impulses and reduced ability to regulate them. Which would be indicative of ADHD.

I wonder if it would help you to do a bit of mindfulness with him in the morning. Just a couple of minutes where you quiet your bodies together (body awareness, where is my body in space, are my arms and legs quiet) and think about what the day will bring. I'm religious so when I do this I do a whole "God loves me" sort of thing, but you could have him do something like, "I am going to have a good day. I am going to listen to my teachers. I am going to learn lots of interesting things." Sometimes just the couple of minutes being quiet together can help them feel like you've "heard" them.

@roamfarandwide I’m in my 60’s but I remember feeling like this when my children (2 boys one with autism and adhd) were young. My memory of their childhood is difficult as I remember feeling irritated so often and I felt immense guilt for years . My sons are in their 30’s now and their girlfriends independently told me how much they admire the relationship my sons have with me . My sons don’t remember me being tetchy . Please do your best but also don’t beat yourself up so much . It is tough for some of us being mums.

The problem with the ADHD approach is that a diagnosis doesn't necessarily make the behaviour less annoying. It doesn't mean the behaviour will stop. You still have to work out how to deal with the irritation in a way that doesn't make you feel like you're constantly techy.

The problem is the irritation, not the child.

A diagnosis may help the ds in the long run but ultimately 'you are irritated because your ds is irritating' is true for most parents of 5 yr olds. I say this as a parent of 1 ND and 1 NT kid.

As draining as it is you have to start celebrating what he does well. Narrate it “that’s is lovely playing” or “thank you for being so kind” or “well done for listening to mummy”. Get him a reward chart or something like that. It must be awful for him too to feel like he’s constantly being told off, it may become a self-fulfilling prophecy. No blame at all though! I understand how hard it is. Good luck.

I know some PP are saying it is not ADHD but do not rule it out, keep an open mind. I am probably projecting but that was me at 5 years old. Never sat still, never shut up. I know I annoyed my parents, I was forced to go to bed at 7pm every night and not come out of my room after that time because I was just too much for them. It was way before anyone had even heard of ADHD so there was no "help" or understanding back then.

The years of being told "be quiet", "sit still", "stop talking", "why can't you just listen" etc did their damage to me at least. So while he may just be 'being a 5 year old', do keep an open mind.

My DS does all the things you describe, the calling you 3 more times after you said you were coming particularly resonated! DS is 8 now, no SEN, so I think it can be normal (I have another DC who doesn't do any of this and is naturally very patient and considerate, so I think it is just different personalities!).

I found 5-6 years old the trickiest with him, and I became quite an irritable shouty mum unfortunately. At 8 now he is becoming a bit more self aware so we patiently keep reiterating what is acceptable behaviour, but it is wearing. He is still very unnecessarily loud and will keep banging toys about and needs to be told 10 times to stop!

On the flip side, his personality also makes him really great fun, he is very excitable and happy, when a few kids his age are becoming a bit miserable and mopey.

Do what you can to survive now and know it will get better!

Thanks all. I know I’ve missed some posts.

I’m definitely not going to get him on the waiting list for an assessment. I’m not sure they’d accept him anyway on the basis of what I’ve said.

Re the monster truck, he wasn’t throwing it to be badly behaved, it was part of a game. Just loud and annoying … which is kind of the problem.

@Verityandsquab654 i don’t know where you got the strangers house from? He was at a soft play party and squirted some ketchup, got some on his hands and started smearing it on his face. Stupid behaviour and I told him very firmly to stop or we would go … but nothing like what you’ve described.

I see as well as ds being diagnosed I have been as well. I don’t think I am autistic but I do probably have a low tolerance for under 7s generally. I do try to be patient but sometimes it’s hard work!

Echoing pp on propioception - my 5yo boy ‘behaves badly’ when he needs something and he can’t work out what it is or doesn’t want to say it - and by behave badly I mean climbs on furniture, throws things. It’s usually overwhelm/overstimulation, tiredness etc.

I have always assumed it’s normal childhood behaviour for some kids, especially those with sensory issues or who are more sensitive and needs to be spotted and managed, like you would if they were hungry/thirsty etc.

Quick warning with no suggestion of choice (I am quite firm and don’t use many words- do not/get down/move away/I will not allow…) and then remove from situation and then regulating activity that calms him usually helps. If I can’t get out the house for this (toddler in tow as well), play doh or balloons to throw etc work well.

You sound like a great mum 😊

Is this the kid that licks his sister constantly? Not read full thread but it reads very much like that poster who couldn’t stand the kid and would write multiple posts about him. No judgement as he did sound extremely irritating

Here we go

Ah this sounds pretty standard to me. Boys are just different beings - I always joke they are like dogs and need to go out for a run twice a day. Be kind to yourself. Looking after ann energetic 5 year old is a lot and it’s more normal to get annoyed with your children than mumsnet would let you believe. Try and find some downtime for yourself (are play dates a possibility or leaving with family/ partner) and I bet you’ll have more tolerance when you are together.

ADHD from that? This is normal 5 yo behaviour! I have twins and my goodness they didn’t stop. I learned to zone out and mutter mmmm, oh really etc then if they wanted to ask an actual question I taught them to say “mummy ….” If they needed full attention rather than half attention. I remember a mum with a single dc trying to tell me that my approach was awful and my dc won’t come to me as teens… they do! Dd3 hates silence and fills it all. I now say you carry on but I’m zoning you out because you’re talking nonsense. She’s 14.

Is your other child a girl OP?

I will get eaten alive for this here possibly, but there are massive behavioural differences for girls and boys at this age. Most, not all of course.

What you are describing is so normal for a boy. If your other child is a typical girl that will be why it seems strange to you.

I am actively upset by people suggesting you medicate this child. WTF. No please do not medicate away your child’s personality in order to make your own life marginally easier.

I’m genuinely upset by this post. I’m here to say anyone who posted that they recognise this behaviour and medicated their own child because of it - you are a bloody terrible parent.

And I am normally never judgemental of other people’s parenting, unless they are abusive. Which medicating a normal child for your own convenience is.