To ask how to cope with a kid who is just so irritating?

[roamfarandwide]

I feel horrible saying this but I am on my last nerve with my five year old. I find him so irritating and I’m sure he must sense it and it must impact his self esteem.

Constant talking. A lot of it makes virtually no sense - I’m sure it does to him but it’s this stream of consciousness that is hard to decipher … he was wittering about these ‘three tigers and if they said no then they’d be there but if they didn’t then they would wouldn’t they mummy …’ and it’s almost always when I’m trying to get everybody ready or dealing with something else and I just don’t have the time to stand there and ask leading questions to work out what he’s on about. I was trying to leave for work the other day and he was just stood there wittering about something … horrible I know.

The noise, my god. So loud. Yes of course I’ve asked him nicely to make less noise. Sometimes he does for seconds later it to start again. He was playing some game this morning involving throwing a large monster truck around in the room with wooden floors and all I can hear is crash bang crash … just so wearing.

Stupid behaviour … nearly had to take him home from a party last week for throwing ketchup around.

Winding sibling up and making her scream. Messy and leaving things lying around.

I do work on it. I really try hard to address the behaviours. But the problem is I’m constantly on at him, I mean all the time. (and doing the ‘tell him what he should be doing’ doesn’t work - he often needs telling really firmly and sharply to knock it off.)

I feel horrible.

Mine is like this with the annoying loud chatter. When I can’t take anymore I put my AirPods in and listen to music. I think at 5 they are particularly chatty. My pre teen had been on adhd med a couple years and it does help to an extent.

My niece was very irritating as a 4/5/6 year old. Constant wittering and questioning, then challenging the answers 😂 Then she was diagnosed with ADHD and medicated (in the US so may be more open to medicating kids). She is 8 now and easier to be with. Still precocious, but much less annoying!

What do you think he's doing that you consider abnormal for his age? None of it is that you've mentioned is abnormal.

It sounds like he wants attention, is there a time you could set aside to give him undivided attention? He may feel that he’s competing for your time with a sibling, work, life in general! I always find it so frustrating when I’m on the move and someone wants me to stand still while they talk at me - I don’t have time! Sounds like you’re in the same boat?

I assume they considered autism when they were diagnosing ADHD

In all honestly we have a friend whose son was like this. He is now medicated and family life has transformed for the better. I’m not sure why you’re resisting a diagnosis. Academic achievement isn’t the only barometer of whether or not a diagnosis would be helpful. You’ve demonstrated yourself that your relationship to your son is at risk and I think that’s reason enough.

This is exactly my thoughts. Sounds like a 5 year old boy being a 5 year old boy.

Re. how to manage, just try to balance out the corrective / negative responses with positives.
So if you tell him stop/no/don’t 15 times a day, find opportunities to say wow/well done/good boy 16 times a day. Maybe he’s being noisy, but he is also sharing! Maybe he’s is wittering endlessly, but he is also wearing his seatbelt / holding your hand / breathing in and out …

Oh OP you’ve brought back memories for me! My DS could witter and ask obscure unanswerable question non-stop from dawn to dusk at that age. He doesn’t have ADHD or ASD diagnoses but I would say he has some traits. He’s at uni now, and still likes a witter.

To an extent it’s normal for 5yos to drive you up the wall and I think most parents have had that thing where they feel like they’re just being negative and telling off all the time because their child is constantly pushing boundaries or causing problems like noise and mess. But I also think some - often intelligent boys with a lot of energy, sometimes possibly ND - can take this constant full-on-ness to an extreme and it is really hard.

Here are some things that helped my DS:

Trampoline if at all possible, if you have the space and can afford it. He would witter to himself while bouncing and use up lots of energy, it helped his sleep too.

Interesting documentaries about obscure animals, space, mysteries of the universe etc. he absolutely loved them and while it fuelled more wittering, he was getting enjoyment (and education!) from them and it would keep him busy for a bit

construction toys of any kind would absorb him.

Challenges like “can you draw a picture of what you’re talking about for me”” or “can you tell me 10 things beginning with T” “can you guess my favourite animal” make a game out of it and find ways to engage with it, this makes it more fun for you and he feels listened to.

Plus more general challenges like say you need some help and you bet he could get everything back into the toy basket in under one minute on a timer, or can he make his sister laugh bet he can’t. Let him help with real jobs like washing veg or watering the garden. It won’t always work and don’t say he has to, but when he does do something you can be full of praise and admiration reducing the “endlessly negative” thing.

This.

Not unusual for a 5 year old boy. You can't have a 5 year old assessed for ADHD in my area because ADHD traits like hyperactivity, impulsive behaviour and difficulty focusing are normal behaviours in early childhood.

Try and pick your battles with him, smile and nod along even if you can't take in what he is saying, turn things in to a game eg flip an egg timer and say let's beat the timer to tidy up/get dressed, give lots of opportunity for physical play.

“family life was much easier”
”she was much easier to be with”

It’s always worth questioning- WHOSE life is being enhanced by medicating children who are too young to express their own views and contribute to the decision?
The child’s? or the adults around them?

(and saying ‘if the adults are happier the child will be happier’ is a cop-out. I know loads of very happy parents with utterly miserable kids).

Please don’t go down the ADHD route - he’s only 5 and is acting like most normal 5 year olds.

Kids that age are constant chatter boxes and want to know everything about everything - it’s how they learn.

I assume he doesn’t see his dad but do you have any other adult family members - visiting them so he can tell them all about what he’s been learning in school helps.

You just have to learn to zone out or only half listen so you can focus on doing other things.

A good tip I found was to walk home from school/childminder and then do the cooking - during that time my DC would chatter away until their hearts content and then after we’d eaten I’d say go and play as I need to do X, Y, Z.

Sorry don’t know why my post keep reposting itself!

It does sound normal. It can even be normal when siblings appear ‘easier’ - still doesn’t mean there is anything medically wrong with this child.

Its just that people’s perceptions of normal have been so skewed due to the over diagnosis of Level 1 ASD or ADHD.

OP my son was similar. He was hard work for a long time! However his school never raised any concerns about being on the spectrum and I firmly believed that he was just a young child and some are harder than others. He’s now 11 and I’m very glad I did not have a label whacked on him at age 4. Also a medical diagnosis stays with you for life and people should be far more cautious about this approach imo.

First, it's totally normal to feel annoyed. It is annoying. But I think you need to focus on changing your behaviour/attitude not his. Well, maybe AND his, given the ketchup incident.

If there's any way to have a break, do that, soon.

Then focus on the relationship. I found the book 'playful parenting' useful but it was years ago and maybe there are better ones out there now. Essentially it is about being playful as much as you can even when you are feeling annoyed. Eg instead of telling off about the truck or instructing positively, pretend to be the truck and ask him to take you upstairs.

Try to be communicative about how you are feeling eg I used to tell the kids about my 'crossometer' when they were being annoying and say roughly where it was (eg my crossometer is going up, you need to be quick, said in a totally normal voice).

Make a connection whenever you can, so make an effort to do things together that you know you can manage without getting irritated and make sure you are engaging with him fully while you're doing it. The swimming lesson thing sounds great on his part, could you play Uno or something with him while your dd is in the pool?

There are going to be rushed times when getting irritated is going to happen but if that is in a general landscape of you trying to make a connection with him it's going to be better all round.

I find much of this thread to be a very sad reflection on society today. A parent asks about a talkative 5 year old and the responses immediately start pushing for diagnoses for conditions. It’s absurd and damaging.

This is a very good post.

I think at 5 years of age you're allowed to be silly, chatter, be full of energy etc.
You say he is able to sit quietly and wait, and school haven't raised any concerns.

If you feel like you’re always on at him then redirect him instead of going on at him.

He may need structured things to do - if he likes making a mess with ketchup then get him doing things like finger painting and making his own pizzas.

Kids need creative, hands on play.
If it’s structured then the mess is easier to contain.

Also catch him being good and praise him - eg putting his shoes or coat in a certain place, washing his hands before he eats, being quiet whilst you’re on the phone.

I really like @WhatterySquashadvice (even if given 4 times!)

I'vegot 4 kids - 3 boys - and behaviour such as throwing toys was squashed immediately. Yes it's tiring to set boundaries, but in the long run it works. If he's downstairs throwing a truck go downstairs and remove the truck. At 5 he already knows that throwing a toy around is not acceptable.

Winding his sister up? Tell her not yo react, because that's what he ia looking for - attention. Tell him to stop, if he doesn't, he goes to.hos room for a period of reflection. He can come back once he is prepared ro say sorry/play nice.

Throwing ketchup? 1 warning. If ignored, remove from party. If you think he's capable of calming down, apologising to host for bad behaviour and behaving, give it 5 minutes and return. If not, just go home. I know I will be shot down for.being harsh, but I found my kids needed boundaries. The more stable the boundaries, the happier my kids were. When I let things slide (which I often did) things soon got out of control and that resulted in unhappy kids.

As for the wittering - my daughter (now 18) loved to chatter as a little one. I was telling her about some poor exhausted parent who said "he just wont stop talking" as I passed. My daughter said - poor kid imagine getting to an age where suddenly you know all these words, how to use them and all you want to do is try out a new skill. It must be so exciting.

And suddenly I had a different perspective.

I’m interested to know how old your other child is, your daughter?

How does it not sound normal?

He sounds like the majority of 5 year olds I’ve met.

He talks a lot, can be loud when he’s playing and is sometimes silly - literally a normal child.

I’d be more concerned if he wasn’t acting like this, he’s a 5yo child not a robot.

He sounds just like my 4 year old and I wonder if he has ADHD, too. No advice, I’m afraid. It’s wearing!

Would just having general household "rules" help? E.g. no throwing things in the living room/inside the house, applies to everything and everyone. Then when he does it you just have to remind him of the rule rather than picking at his behaviour. We did this when our DC (5 and 3) started to get stronger/more wild and energetic and now the 5yo likes enforcing the rules himself. The long winded talking is just a thing though I think. Mine both do it. I try to say something like "I can see you really want to tell me something, just let me finish x and then I'll be with you". Then I give them my full attention when I can. Also make mealtimes the time for conversation and let them tell you all the crazy stuff in their head while you're eating (at least that way they're not constantly asking for stuff from the kitchen!)

Absolutely.

Give time outside, great active play, follow his interests, great toys to absorb him, leave things like Lego out so that he can continue his play over days. What does he enjoy playing with? Provide more of the same.

Read about schema (patterns of play) to support choices of play for, supporting his natural interests.

Boxes, balls, sticks, buckets of water and a paint brush, large sheets of paper, big crayons - toys don’t even need to be expensive.

His immersion in play will develop his concentration span, initially able to focus himself for 3-4 minutes and extending this which will give you a break.

I would get his hearing checked rather than any focus on ADHD which requires specialist, professional teams to diagnose. (Rather than internet suggestions for every single time anyone asks for ideas about their child’s needs)