AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

[estrogone]

We have a junior in our office who’s only been with us about three months and is still on probation, where the expectation is mostly office-based work. They briefly mentioned in passing at one point that they might travel overseas, but there was never any proper discussion or approval before the trip was booked.

They’ve now come back and advised the trip is already booked and confirmed for nearly a month overseas, in a time zone 10 hours away. They proposed a range of adjusted working arrangements, including shortened hours and overnight work, so they can continue working remotely while away.

I haven’t approved the shortened hours or alternative arrangements and have asked them to demonstrate how they realistically intend to maintain service levels and cope with working nights while effectively on holiday overseas.

I am a lot WTAF to four weeks of leave for someone who has only been with the business a matter of months and is still in probation.

AIBU to think this is request is out of order?

Tbh I think it could work but you don't want it to. So you may as well say no and then they'll leave.

Your workplace has a definitive policy

@estrogone makes no such mention of one

Yes they need to work 9pm - 5am. They are staying with family/ their partner who does have leave, so the days will presumably be put aside for family outings etc.

Just not feasible. They would also have to take our business laptop with them.

Nope I am firm, its a hard no on the wfh request. Just debating the unpaid leave option with myself.

We are a small business - just 15 staff. We have a WFH policy aligned with local statutory requirements but overseas working isn't covered.

I’d say tough. It’s a hard lesson but they need to learn it.

If you don't want to lose them, offer a month's unpaid leave or part annual leave/ part unpaid but no working from abroad bollocks.

If they are revealing themselves as a but of an arse, perfect opportunity to refuse the holiday they'll either resign or play some version of silly buggers like getting signed off with stress for the month and thej you can fail their probation.

And no policy at all regarding leave and probation?

I have an incredibly flexible employer and working abroad is a fast no under any circumstances. Much to the annoyance of people with family abroad.

And use this as an opportunity to review your onboarding process. Things like this (what’s acceptable/ unacceptable) need to be spelled out from the start. I’ve learnt the hard way that what I view as obvious (or common sense) based on attitudes 30 years ago in the working work is not the same for new starters now.

Really genuinely wondering how you think this. I really wanted to give the benefit of the doubt.

They would need to work nights (9pm - 5am) - lots of calls in our working day, so part time won't work.

1000% agree, I have already set the wheels in motion to get this covered.

Yes of course we have a policy for leave and probation.

All of which is breached if I agree to their 'proposal'.

If they did think it was okayed then that's their mistake. Companies have processes to get leave signed off. It'll be in their contract.

Right so breached.

and if you accept their proposal - you’d be breaching it.

I would accept unpaid leave only and ONLY of that is in line with the policy.

what does the owner think?

I am the owner. Sad 😔

Most final stage interviews ask if you have pre booked holiday, or certainly at offer stage.

Good grief, there are a lot of employers who would take a very dim view of their most established staff booking a trip like that without discussion and approval.

I'd have no qualms in telling them this would be considered unapproved and would expect them to resign. Apart from the obvious inconvenience to the company, if they have the arrogance to assume their behaviour is acceptable at this stage, I'd be worried about what other stunts they'd pull once they'd settled in.

They have no sense of reliability or loyalty. Nor of respecting work processes or asking what the leave request process is if they’re not sure.

your trust in them has been broken.

by authorising unpaid extended leave, you are setting a precedent which other employees might see as unfair or decide to take advantage of.

i think you would be wise to tell them either cancel or leave.

Its a massive ballache to rehire and retrain. But I am going to have to hire a retrain a temp anyway.

No, this is too much, too soon. Unpaid leave at the most, although this would set a precedent for others in the company, of which this person will be the first to profit off again at any time of their choosing.

They have only been in AU for 7 months, so it honestly did not occur to me. Lesson learned. This will be covered in our interview, policy and contract moving forward.

You check your policy and apply it.

Most places require special approval before taking more than two weeks annual leave.

Most places don't allow working from abroad other than in special circumstances.

I would consider approving it as leave but not remote working. If you approve it as leave extend probation by a month and make sure they understand what their entitlement is and what they will be taking as unpaid.

.....the "ex pat contacts" which used to be more common and explicitly allowed a long period of leave every second year or similar

I think that was possibly a leftover from the days before long haul air travel was common. People needed the extended leave in order to travel 'home' and back by sea.

What is your policy regarding leave during probation?

Gosh OP

Good not to reward CFery of the highest order! but what a pain for you.

I wish I'd had 0.3% of their sheer nerve as an employee 😂