AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

[estrogone]

We have a junior in our office who’s only been with us about three months and is still on probation, where the expectation is mostly office-based work. They briefly mentioned in passing at one point that they might travel overseas, but there was never any proper discussion or approval before the trip was booked.

They’ve now come back and advised the trip is already booked and confirmed for nearly a month overseas, in a time zone 10 hours away. They proposed a range of adjusted working arrangements, including shortened hours and overnight work, so they can continue working remotely while away.

I haven’t approved the shortened hours or alternative arrangements and have asked them to demonstrate how they realistically intend to maintain service levels and cope with working nights while effectively on holiday overseas.

I am a lot WTAF to four weeks of leave for someone who has only been with the business a matter of months and is still in probation.

AIBU to think this is request is out of order?

A lot of companies would just quietly fail their probation just for asking. It is so witless its breathtaking. It raises questions about their judgment.

It would be generous of you to say no, allow them to remain employed and learn a valuable lesson.

Ive had a similar situation, didnt approve it, they left rather than lose the money on the holiday, oh well. Not to worry. Very easily replaced with someone who didnt take the piss

Unpaid leave and extend probation.

YABU to even consider agreeing to them working abroad. Cheeky fuckery. If your employer has a woolly policy on that, they’re silly.

Where I work a request for unpaid leave so soon into employment would be swiftly declined and they’d need to shorten the trip, cancel it, resign, or go on leave unauthorised and risk being disciplined - though probably not fired.

They won't lose thousands. They will go.

You need to look for a replacement.

With the extra info, no, fuck that shit

Refuse permission for any leave at that time. They can either cancel the holiday or resign. And if they cancel, put in one day a week work from office/in person meetings so they can't attempt to sneak off and do it anyway.

Do you think they had already booked the month away before the job offer?
When they 'briefly mentioned in passing' did you pick up on this and clarify what they meant, or make it clear that was not an option so early in their job? They might have thought 'briefly mentioning' without any pushback from you meant 'OK'.

That said, I have a 25 year old who is currently in probation in a new job. Before she started she clearly (not briefly!) mentioned some prior booked summer commitments and these were approved as a/l at the discretion of the hiring manager. Much as she would LOVE to go travelling for a month, there is no way she would book this after the event and there is no way she would be dictating terms. Not all 25 year olds are piss-takers. It does sound like this one is though.

I'd just show them the door. Many employers don't allow more than 2 weeks without extenuating circumstances let alone booking without checking at all. A special blend of stupidity and entitlement.

It doesn't bode well for the future. To be so brazen and cheeky when you have barely started the job demonstrates an attitude that puts the job at the very bottom of their priorities.
Have they never worked before?
I can't imagine a workplace where staff routinely book holidays without prior approval.
If it's her very, very first job it might be worth explaining that leave can only be taken with prior approval in future. On this occasion she can take the whole period as unpaid leave but it will never happen again.
I would definitely not bend over backwards to allow her to "work" during the holiday.
If she's only just in the job she can't be irreplaceable.

I would refuse.
This is the real world.
In my business we are not allowed to work remotely in EU countries due to tax rules and can't work outside EU due to data protection rules.
If they had explicitly said at recruitment "I'm going abroad for 4 weeks a month in" would you have offered them the job, or picked someone else.
Sounds like a cheeky fucker to me.

Not sure this person sounds like a good fit in the long term. It’s unlikely to be the only time once they get away with it.
also I don’t know on Aus rules but there can be tax implication of working abroad especially in jurisdictions like India and China so often they are refused. At our place for some time you couldn’t even have access to work email when you go to India.

If hiring / training costs to replace them aren’t too high would probably say a flat no to any leave other than the annual leave they’re due, and hope they resign, or fire them if they go anyway. since someone who behaves like this so soon is likely to continue to do problematic things later when it’s harder and costlier to fire them.

jt is cheeky but as said above your options are suck it up or say no, not granted and be prepared for him to either leave or sack him

I think if you wanted to be very, very kind you could sit them down and explain how totally off the mark they are. Tell them calmly and in a mentoring capacity that this is completely unacceptable and not how work works. Say you are giving them the benefit of the doubt that somehow they hadn’t understood this. Explain that you are not approving the leave or remote working. Then give them the option to either cancel the trip at their own cost, or resign.

Sly and definitely premeditated. They know what they’re planning to do.

You need to speak to HR. My company would be a no, because of security, tax, insurance, loads of reasons. There are pribably things in the work contract too.
It isnt a simplr practicality of working and service levels issue.
Take it to HR as this is out of your scope.
Explain to the junior that you can not approve it but you will pass this to HR to review. It maybe that they can take unpaid leave or some other option.

And also explain that either way this is a black mark on their probation.

If it was booked before employing them I’d grit my teeth and honour it. Travelling can help youngsters settle down in the long term. Are they offering to work while abroad to try not to let the company down?

At 25 they have a long working life ahead and they may work harder for you for your generosity in allowing them to go. However, I probably would tell them to take it as unpaid leave for the part that is currently over the holiday they have accrued.

That’s their problem

I agree with this but also, if you agree - and keeping in mind that is likely going to inconvenience your work/service a lot - you are making a rod for your own back as a) they’ll not learn you cannot do that and b) others will want to do the same.

I think anyone who behaves so carelessly so early on is like to keep doing similar things. I would say that no adjustments are available but if they want to stick to contracted hours from abroad that's up to them.

You also need to factor in the impact on existing staff who carefully consider leave and give sensible notice etc. I had one junior colleague who once said " you have to say yes, I've already booked it." My response was that I didn't have to but would ( made no difference to me really)
Second time i just refused and gently suggested she needed to get a grip!

If it wasn't booked prior to them starting and not discussed at interview then that would be a non starter where I work. Long term staff might get approval but need to request permission booking. Someone on probation would not get clearance even for a holiday for that period never mind permission to work abroad.

if this is how they behave on probation they sound like they might be a problem employee

Id advise suck up the costs of replacing. Employees like this so early on get emboldened and just get worse IME then go off with stress etc

If they booked the trip while job seeking, that’s their problem.