AIBU to think my stepdaughter is testing household rules at night?

[Feel2old]

Hi just registered to get some insight tbh..

so I have been with my wife for 11 years married for 2 we both had children when we met and we all live together and have done for 9 years or so..I would like to know if I’m being unreasonable so here it goes..

having 4 children in the house is always hard work and being a STEP PARENT for both me and my wife can be challenging but we get through it..however this is causing massive rows..so we have rules in general,usually the kids go up stairs at 8.30pm and do whatever play games watch tv chill I’m not too fussed as long as they are quiet enough and then I say own rooms like 9.30pm.. I also set rules like if you want a cup of tea or anything it’s before 8.30pm. Obvs there’s times when it’s different due to circumstances..and here’s the issue..I believe our oldest is doing things on purpose to make me and my wife argue..she will come down at like 9pm and stuff and ask for a tea and say she forgot the time or do something that’s will trigger a debate with me and my wife..if this does cause a stir she will then do something else out side of this time frame and for me it’s because she knows we will row…I have tried to speak to my wife about this and stated she has all day to do these things and we all know the time frames we are living by and it seems that she’s doing it knowing we will row..and I just get called an idiot..she just went and ran a bath the other day and gone 9pm and I got annoyed me and my wife debated and I said now she sees we argued just see the upcoming days she will do things.. and today she came asking for a sandwich at like 9pm.my wife moans at me saying you don’t choose when your hungry she’s growing and maybe she just wants a bath..and I don’t disagree but it feels like she does these things on purpose knowing the rules and knowing we will disagree and my point is the others should just come down for things when they feel like it too then but apparently that’s not the case..just to clarify my kids are well loved and looked after and fed I just believe rules should be in place to keep a form or order and it seems she does it on purpose she’s 14 years old..
They also come and ask for something to eat throughout the days and I make judgment if they can have it depending on dinner time or whatever
im also told in a debate today other people’s kids don’t even have to ask for something to eat..but then they would raid the place and there be nothing left…So am I unreasonable for being annoyed by this should it be ok ..am I being too harsh..and should they just get what they want when they are hungry.

also am I unreasonable for thinking it’s done on purpose.

I don’t want to fight with my wife or kids I love them all 😊

I think you’re a bit obsessed with boundaries and rules. How was your own childhood?

To answer your specific question, 14 is peak boundary pushing time so she may be doing it purposefully but in this case she is justified because the rules are too rigid. I’m glad to see you are going to have a think about this OP, which will be to your credit.

When my dd tells me about the antics of kids at school it’s often the ones with strict parental rules who are the wildest because they rebel or break the rules behind parents backs. Responsible and respectful kids are not created by arbitrary rules but by giving them respect, allowing them responsibility and helping them to develop and understand their own boundaries.

This can't be a real / true post. I hope it isn't anyway.

She needs more freedom. At 14 I was ravenous! Crème caramels (in pots), large bbq hula hoops and huge sandwiches were my snacks. I was regularly staying up late to watch French subtitled films (improved my gcse French no end!).

I don’t think your stepdaughter is doing this to cause rows too.

Spot on with your last paragraph and reflects how I brought my own children up. My children were and are (as adults) the least feral people you could meet.

When my nana was 14 her mum died and she was sent away to stay with an uncle but she returned home after 6 months. When she got home she found her dad had remarried. My nana went to the food cupboard and helped herself as usual but got a telling off from her stepmum saying she was to ask her for food from now on. My nana created a huge objection with her dad (who took her side). She moved out at 16. She never forgot this though from her stepmum.

Kids need boundaries, rules and routines... However at 14 she's no longer a child and will be wanting to start gaining independence, and in some areas, yes, test existing boundaries.

At this age you're meant to be supporting her to grow up, try new things and see what works for her and what doesn't. It's better than she try now in the safety of her home than have a rush of freedom in a few years time.

My child is slightly older - no set bedtime (although home by 8.30/9 on school nights) and no restrictions on what she can take from the kitchen at any time. Maybe I just got lucky, but by relaxing rules slowly as she grew up she is learning her own likes/dislikes and growing routines that work for her.

My 14 year old is still at sports practice at 8:30pm. Not even home for dinner until 9:15pm. Of course, it’s ridiculous. It’s her home, not a detention camp. Why don’t you try going upstairs and staying in your room every night from 8:30pm if you want some quiet?

A couple of additional points to my previous post:
•at this age, individuation is developmentally appropriate and expected: she is supposed to be forging her own way, seeking autonomy and questioning boundaries. It's healthy and completely in line with her age. Don't make it about you, and certainly don't argue about it.
•could your step daughter, if she wanted to, access her mum for time alone on any given evening? I'm wondering whether your expectations around upstairs-time (even though you've since back-pedalled on this, explaining it as a more naturally occurring phenomenon than a rule -I'll come back to this) has made it harder for your step daughter to find times to effortlessly connect with her mum one-to-one? Or is the DCs' upstairs time sort of the time in your mind that is 'for you and your wife'? Your step daughter will be at a time in her life when she really needs her mum's ear, with you nowhere in sight, giving them both lots of uninterrupted space.
•my own DC gradually crept further into their own spaces, earlier and earlier in the evenings, entirely of their own volition, almost as if it was their own preference, at the time when xdp (their actual dad) began to 'expect things to be a certain way around here'. They just didn't want to spend time together anymore and peeled off to their rooms not to have to engage with his arbitrary ideas of 'ground rules'. On his hobby nights, they'd be downstairs chatting, singing, baking, watching TV, debating, having friends over, playing games -like normal kids. But on his nights in, they chose 'gadgets' upstairs, as you put it. When he scaled back his hobby to 'focus on the family', it became too much. He sounded just like you, believed he really loved us all, and couldn't see how trying to run a home this way was creating nothing but a holding bay for young teens who couldn't wait for his hobby nights, were desperate for sleepovers with friends (away from our home) and, by extension, to up and leave home at the earliest possibility. No violence, no shouting, no 'obvious' cruelty, just the subtle control of expectation.

Hence XDP.

If things feel a bit strained with your wife and you find yourself arguing, I strongly urge you to row this back and let her lead on the emotional 'climate' of your home. Get yourself out of the way and give them space away from you a couple of nights per week. You may not see the need, but they might find some relief in it.

I actually think you might be right about the rows between you and your dw being a key part of the dynamic.

But it strikes me from your post that maybe you think that your dw is causing the arguments by disagreeing with you. Do you realise that you could avoid the row by changing what you do? Either stay silent or cheerfully agree.

There is a lot of value in firm rules, and boundaries, but they can backfire on us if we are too rigid. It’s a good idea to revisit them, especially as parents because dc cognitive and biological developmental can change the parameters.

Go for a walk or a coffee with your dw when you need to discuss these things, do you can talk it out away from the dc. It’s never a good idea to debate in front of the children.

One of my DD's housemates (there are four of them) moved in with them last year when an existing housemate moved out. The three existing housemates had developed their own household behaviours over time. The new housemate seemed to think that she could set all sorts of new rules that seemed pointless and arbitrary to the others (no leaving eg even a freshly washed cup to drain on the draining board, it must be dried up and put away immediately) while occupying shared space in a very full on way with a "Granny lifestyle" of baking bread, sitting around knitting etc. New housemate complained when other housemates had friends around to the shared house as she wanted peace and quiet. DD had to be quite fierce with the new housemate in explaining that she wasn't the rule maker and that the house had been rented precisely because it had a large kitchen/living area and garden so they could have lots of friends round, not to engage in a Granny lifestyle of baking, knitting, peace and quiet and obsessive housework.

Living with others requires give and take and it's very important IMO that family life teaches that.

She’s breaking the rules because she’s desperate for some control over her own life. You need to relax and let her and the other children have some agency otherwise they are going to either rebel big time, struggle with their mental health or be able to develop their own decision making skills.

We have no rules as such in our house, my kids have just been brought up to be considerate, respectful and thoughtful by us modeling that behaviour to them. If they want a bath late at night then that’s fine so long as they clean up after themselves and don’t disturb anyone who is already sleeping. Ditto making drinks or food. It’s time you stopped treating your children like employees and more like individuals who have their own wants and needs.

This is so far from draconian or abusive - how over dramatic. At 14, she can easily have a bath at 8:30 pm when she goes up. She can then read and play/do something until 9:30 pm or 10:00 pm with a drink in her room before sleep. This is perfectly reasonable. At 14, I imagine she’s capable of spending an hour and a half sorting out her own evening relaxation and bedtime routine. It sounds like she’s bored or is craving some conversation general attention before bed…I’d expect you or your wife to engage with her either in talk or a small activity before lights out to curb any loneliness or boredom etc. I’d just say you can do whatever you want during these times as long as you’re in bed by x time without the phone etc.

I'm not sure the DD is "breaking rules" so much as just living her life and living her life is not acceptable to the OP.

What's the big deal with wanting a drink or something to eat later on. She's old enough to make it and clear up after herself.

As a teen she should be more than capable and is definitely old enough. And old enough not to be sent upstairs at 8.30 too.

Wow that’s ridiculous!! I have 2 tweens/ teens and cannot imagine telling them they can’t come downstairs after 8.30pm like they are infants. It’s their home as well! We set a bedtime for the younger of the 2 but they can do what they like before that, watch tv with us, make drinks or whatever.

Yes YABU. Your rules are horribly restrictive and unnecessary. Would you like to be banished for 12 hours in your own home?

Plus just why, why can’t they just chill where they want until bedtime? You’re not running a juvenile detention centre.

Re snacks, my kids know to ask for stuff like biscuits and crisps but if they want toast and fruit they can get it whenever they want.

What the ?? Why does she have to have a bath at 8.30? Why do the parents have to go to her ? What am I reading? She's 14. It's her HOME! Why does @Feel2old set the rules? It's a family home. Its not HIS home. Jesus 😳🙄

I know, I hate all the men coming on with step family issues like this, tbh.

Very controlling op. Not reasonable to expect a 14 year old to be upstairs by 8.30pm daily. By 10 is more reasonable unless they are up particularly early. Tea is not a suitable evening drink unless herbal, i wouldn’t allow caffeine after 2pm

Also just to add I would let them come down after 8:30pm and help themselves to food and a drink (a cup of tea in the evening is basically like having an energy drink so no idea why people are agreeing with that) but a sandwich etc is fine, if she’s expecting you or your wife to make it and clear the mess each time then it’s time to teach her how to do it herself

But your thought process is in itself mad.

No, your 14 yr old is not calculating her every move to 'get at you'.

She is living her life, in her home. Whilst having to dance around your inflexibility and weirdness.

Loosen up and the home will be a happier one. We try to put rules in place but teenagers get hungry at all times and sometimes mine are up too late finishing homework. I want our home to feel safe and for them to feel comfortable. I guess this is how you were raised. You have the power to change this situation for the better.

Your rules are suitable for primary age children. As they get older 'the rules' need to grow with them.

I have 3 teens, since the age of 12, two of them have had an evening activity that doesn't finish until 9.30pm so they're not even home until 9.45pm twice a week. The 16 yr old now has a job that can finish as late as 11pm.

You say they need to ask for food? The only meal we provide is dinner, they are free to make their own breakfasts and lunches and snacks as they see fit. Obviously I buy the food.

I don't see how a 14 yr old making a cup of tea or having a bath at 9pm affects you in any way. If they didn't have to ask you for permission to have a drink, they wouldn't have to disturb you at all.

It's actually nice having a conversation with my teens in the evening or watching a TV show together. Sometimes it's when they start to open up and tell us about their day or what's going on in their lives. I can't imagine banishing them upstairs at 8.30pm

I think your rules need a refresh to acknowledge that the children are not little anymore and need a bit more independence and ability to manage their own lives (like getting their own drinks) without you micromanaging them.