AIBU to compare pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests? Both involve hatred antisemitism or racism and both end up in trouble. Two cheeks of the same ass as I've heard on here before!

[HeyHoHenryHippy]

Pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests this Saturday with yet again thousands of officers having to spend the day controling these protests. Surely there is a better way. Static protest or once a month for Gaza? I think Tommy's lot isn't weekly like the Gaza lot.

Antisemitism is a major problem and general racism also up. Armoured vehicles are needed now with the first time in 15 years to use them. Terror incidents have risen yet what have either of these 'protests' achieved apart from further divisions!

Stick them in separate areas and tell them to stand with their various placards and keep them there. They ave their virtue signalling and hate fuelled moments but stop annoying the rest of us and keep the costs down - it's costing millions of pounds.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15816041/Met-Police-call-armoured-cars-London-braces-day-pro-Palestine-Tommy-Robinson-led-protests.html

I'm sure you could Google holocaust inversion definition, instead as coming across as just argumentative.

I'm sure you could provide an explanation, if you know what it means, for the benefit of posters on this thread.

We can all Google it in the unlikely event we don’t know what it means.

This gaslighting really is quite obvious. You clearly think differently to me so I'm leaving it there.

Gaslighting: a form of psychological manipulation and emotional abuse where a perpetrator deliberately distorts facts, denies events, or twists the truth.

There are possibly some posts on here which some might interpret as "gaslighting". But they're not written by me. My replies, to your posts, have asked for data to back up the claims you've made, and for the meaning of a term you used which I hadn't, up to that point, heard before.

Asking for verification of a claim or for an explanation of a phrase, is perfectly normal behaviour.

Nobody got time for your 'data' just use Google.

The issue with threads like this where people are accused of hating Jews or being anti semitic. The issue is that anyone on the pro Palestine side is automatically categorised in with the worst of the movement. So according to the Op I'm a racist and I'm a troublemaker and hate people just because I've marched for Palestine.

I've marched against the EDL and the SDL - but apparently I'm like Tommeh supporters.

The people who harassed/threatened me were members of the Snp as was I. Do I think every snp supporter is like them? There are complete arseholes in every movement. No one needs to tell me that.

No. No I don't. I really object to being called a Jew hater and a racist. It's very easy to do that when you are on an anon message board.

If people thinks that makes their cause or what they stand for any better - I'm not sure it does

There was another thread on here where people were talking about general politics and Palestine - and people were just making statements that a five minute Google search would have evidenced weren't actually true

And of course some people have a list of demands that you have to prove that you aren't one of these people - when you've already made clear that you don't hate Jews and you don't harass people on marches. I don't go to any march to shout at or harass other people

There's a controversial figure in Scotland called Alastair McConnachie. He's made statements that some people think are Holocaust denial. He used to turn up at every Scottish Independence march and shout at people with a megaphone. He's pretty much everything I oppose politically

Its amazing how people think they know what you represent as a person just because of who you support politically.

It's actually horrible facing the SDL and EDL. I was completely terrified. Even though they were separated from us by police

If any Palestine march that I had gone on had been like that - I would not have gone

It's surely possible to march for a cause without being accused of inciting hate for another group of people.

I don't support any attacks on any Jewish places of worship either. People who do that are clearly unhinged and they don't represent me

I've not been to any political march for 4 years. I personally would have liked to go to an anti racist march in Glasgow a couple of years ago but I was too scared there would be trouble. There's a large organised group that basically whips up hate against anyone not white and Scottish. And then I smashed my leg to pieces and couldn't have marched anywhere even if I had wanted to

You've repeatedly made claims that are untrue. You've not been called any of the things you claim.

I will ignore you from now onwards since you keep making things up.

You don’t have to justify yourself
You don’t have to prove you and your beliefs are worthy

In fact, after this thread, we now know we can say whatever we like with no need for any proof
Interesting how these CEM threads have always been informative with people perfectly happy to oblige with evidence
They've been encyclopaedic

Now I suppose with more wars started by the Israeli Government it becomes so much harder to keep trying to desperately justify their motives and actions
so now it’s just blatant throw away comments of any old rubbish

So
We see them for what they are
gaslighting

but essentially Spry no one else is bending over backwards to prove their worth and you certainly don’t need to

"Holocaust inversion is a rhetorical device that recasts the victims of the Holocaust as the perpetrators. It typically involves comparing contemporary Israeli policies to the Nazis, labeling Palestinians as the "new Jews". Experts and international organizations define this as a form of antisemitism."

Israel has never started a war. They've won all the wars started against them though.

Well I know of at least 4.

Maybe if I Google I could find more.

but Aparently I don’t have to prove anything 🤷‍♀️

Nor have they won all wars they were involved in ( I googled that one to check and what a waste of time ) tbh this is starting to sound a bit playground now.

Is the Gaza war one of them? If so, Hamas started that one - we all know that is factually true even if people like to muddy the water about "resistance".

Thank you for answering.

I hear your point of view, but many (maybe most) marches and protests are politically driven - one of the biggest against the Iraq war, then there were many against Brexit, these 2 under discussion seem as if they’ll continue. And stretching back to the Tolpuddle Martyrs, and then there’s women’s suffrage.

So I do think they actually can change things - not so much it does appear lately, but suffrage certainly did - and I’m glad! Also protests against poll tax worked to change that.

I agree they cause disruption and cost - the disruption at least is sort of the point, or if they didn’t disrupt nobody would take any notice. I worry about the restrictions being placed on them tbh (by Tories, now Labour) as I believe it’s a hugely important right to keep general rights alive and we may end up losing this by stealth, by cost, by inconvenience.

I do understand the difficulties for people impacted by any protests inadvertently- Extinction Rebellion are often pointed out too as damaging/disruptive - but it baffles me people complain about a longer route to work for example because we don’t really want to lose this right to protest - whether we agree or not with the cause.

Obviously, criminal behaviour must be addressed by usual routes. I mean obviously we are skint, it impacts folk etc - but it worries me that all the downsides are always across media and it seems we are being persuaded protests are a ‘bad thing’ and people won’t worry if they’re restricted further - sooner or later that would be a problem in itself.

By the way though I’m fully onboard with folk doing local stuff to help improve local communities- make life around a tad better - but both can be done.

The examples you give are things that directly involved the UK.

Marching for Gaza is different - we cannot influence that war, we are not involved.

Ah - so I would argue it involves the U.K. as in selling arms to Israel and supporting them. So the March is protesting government policy on that.

I’m not asking anyone to agree or disagree with the point of the protest, but pointing out why. I should add that the specific March on Saturday normally happens annually anyway to remember the Nakba, though I’d say currently it obviously includes protest as above. Tommy called his March the same day on purpose if you ask me, but that’s arguable, so the Palestinian March grew to include the counter to Tom.

The UK sells component parts for the F35s to Israel not “arms to Israel”.

And Israel is a long standing political ally so the UK government supports them to a degree - though has also been highly critical at times during the war and has recognised Palestine as a state.

But again, we can’t actually influence the war in Gaza, as we lack the control we had over going to war with Iraq, or giving the suffragettes what they were demanding or Brexit or the Tolpuddle Martyrs.

It’s not our war but members of our community are feeling threatened not by one march but by multiple marches on a very regularly - sometimes weekly- basis.

Plus there are other ways people could protest such as boycotting Israeli goods & services, that would not intimidate ordinary Jewish people just trying to get on with their lives in the UK.

Thank you for this, and for the details. I can understand your point of view - though I can still understand the Palestinian view - maybe they’re thinking that taking a relentless approach will keep momentum and make people listen/be aware etc.

As said I’m concerned that rights to protest will be restricted bit by bit and this will have public support due to the issues that are raised - it’s so important to retain these rights despite any annoyance, irritation- whether we agree with the specific cause or not.

I’m sorry - I forgot to address the threat that community members face or feel.

That is a dreadful side of these marches. It shouldn’t be like this. I feel everything is so bipartisan on everything now, and it is saddening the hatred and reflected fear caused by this.

My general approach is love not hate - and it would be great if we could all March and protest without pitting groups one against the other - whilst everyone can hold different views surely we could all be nice to all other humans - I appreciate that is naive.

My own choice, is not to go on solely Palestinian causes - I don’t know enough, it’s not related to my personal identity and I can’t assume how anyone feels - however, I went as part of the counter and was happy enough to March alongside - as some do alongside us. This is unity for one cause I think and I can recognise/understand theirs.

I hope you understand that - thanks for explaining your point of view so well too.

You’re welcome. I think there has to be a balance between making people aware of an issue and wanting a peaceful community that feels safe for everyone.

The marches for Palestine do contain some people with extreme views unfortunately and thus we have seen antisemitic chants & placards, arrests etc. Had they been kept purely peaceful there would be less of a backlash now.

I doubt any UK government will outlaw peaceful protests, we are a democracy after all. But they may end up restricting the form protests take (more static protests maybe) & come down harder on those that seek to use them as a vehicle for hate speech/hate crimes.

I understand that the UK sell component parts for the F35s to Israel not “arms to Israel”. Not quite the same.

Which is why I vote restore

Whilst I disagree that people should be arrested for holding nationalistic views.

Restore Britain are a terrifying prospect. When someone finds Reform “too moderate” then we’re in trouble.

Direct quote from their campaign director “Restore Britain believe that Britain is a people defined by indigenous British ancestry and Christian faith.”.

This kind of extremist ideology is no better than radical Islam and deserves to be challenged as much.

I think @InstantlyBella may have met her match in @Endofpartone

Restore - when Reform aren’t racist enough for you.

I’ve even seen a Tommeh video saying he’s going to question Lowe over some stuff, as he’s finding him too racist.

So I’m not going to thank you for your honesty - but it is good to know this about you I guess.