Husband threatening divorce over a holiday.

[KiggiCalli]

I would like to take my daughter to Africa on holiday. For context, I am Black British and my husband is white. He does not like long-haul flights and is refusing to agree to the trip. His view is that because I visited South Africa four years ago, there is no need for us to travel to Africa again, and that we should choose a closer destination such as Europe instead.
My daughter, who is of mixed African heritage, has never been to Africa and is devastated that she is not being allowed to go.

My husband is threatening to divorce me, should I go ahead and book the holiday?

Do you think all white couples embrace each other's "culture" entirely? Of course they dont!

This 1000%. Most people here either just don't get it, or are being deliberately obtuse. When we as black people talk about racial microaggressions, the responses on this thread are EXACTLY what we are talking about.

Well they should, as should anyone marrying someone of a different culture.

Yeah threatening divorce over that is weird... Like, if you go on this one holiday he'd be happy to live the rest of his life without you... but if you don't, he'd be happy to live the rest of his life with you? Anyone who can suggest they'd be open to the idea of living without you the rest of their life, they already have one foot out the door. He wants to divorce you, but it's not about a holiday.

Clearly he doesn't want to go on the holiday so it's not a good idea to force him to go on it. Maybe pitch this one as a mother daughter expedition. He need not go; he can stay back and you could all go on a smaller, lower budget fun European holiday a bit later in the summer.

If he has a problem with South Africa, how about Kenya, Ethiopia, Morocco, Egypt, Gambia, Tanzania, Ghana?

All these are all solid tourist destinations. Africa is 53/4 countries, lots of choice and variety.

No, she doesn't. She's her mother, they will have return tickets, hotels etc.

There is no indication of this being a run away situation. Whatever made you think that?

Umm it’s the law

If she goes via South Africa she will need written permission from him

and in the UK you can also be stopped

A lot of white people live and holiday (including beach & safari) in South Africa.

There is a quite a bit stereotyping going on here, for some reason.

She just wants a family holiday in Africa, in a huge country of her choice. Somewhere, she's been before and liked, and now wants to share the experience with both daughter and husband.

That's a terrible state of affairs when a parent cannot leave the UK with their child without the other's permission.

All the more reason, for the husband to man up and go and enjoy the family holiday. If he can cope with adventuring in Vietnam, he can cope with South Africa. They just need to be sensible.

I think it’s pretty obvious why that is the case! I think you would be pretty relieved it’s the case if you were going through a bitter separation and your ex tried to get the kids out the country

South Africa have very strict rules to prevent child trafficking

most countries have some level of rule so you should always be aware before travelling

SHE DOES NOT WANT TO GO ON HOLIDAY TO SOUTH AFRICA

Read her posts!

I would go on holiday without him. I rarely go on holiday with DH (my first MN post was on this years ago, as I was worried that going on a separate holiday was a bad sign in our relationship). It's actually made things better, he didn't enjoy holidays and we all have a much better time. Totally fine if your DH doesn't want to go himself, but you and DD should go.

Leave him at home, take your daughter by yourself and have some lovely mother-daughter bonding time.

You don't understand much about human beings. Even, Americans who have no immediate British heritage like to visit Britain and Europe. Why, because they want to, they want to feel a commonality with a country/countries of their ancestors. They want to see landmarks and go to key places like Scotland or Ireland.

If a Black British woman wants to take her daughter and husband to experience a part of Africa that she has been to, and felt welcome and enjoyed where is the harm in that?

A 13 yr old already knows what racism is, what it is to be different. Maybe, her mother just wants her not only to have a holiday in an African country that has a lot to offer - Safaris, beaches and the Table Mountain. But, also have a life experience of being in a completely different environment with mixed cultures. It's called 'Exposure' and learning about other countries with a Black majority. Of course, there are other African countries that can offer similar experiences, that are closer, like Kenya and Tanzania. But, all African countries have something to offer the intrepid traveller, as long as they use their common sense.

Her daughter is 13, wonderful age, before losing her to teenage angst. What a lovely thing to do and share with her parents. Her friends are going to be so envious. But, an experience like that will stay with her, as an individual.

As long as they are sensible, book their trips properly and remember that they are abroad, they should be fine.

Your African daughter-in-law may choose not to visit other African countries, that is her choice and probably she's trying to use her limited holiday time to keep ties with her own family/country. It is not the same.

Really you kmow the answer to the dilemma yourself don't you?

I'm not sure that they are racist, just they haven't thought about how it feels to be Black British or Black or Asian, or indeed any ethnic minority. Let alone in a mixed marriage, and there is a long history of mixed marriages in the UK. However, it is usually the Black or Asian woman who makes a lot more compromises to please their partner.

There are even Black women, who believe that a wife should always agree with the husband's point of view.

But, this is a modern, interconnected and now chaotic world, there needs to be a lot more compromise and understanding.

More to the point, this trip as I see it, is the last one where their daughter will be happy to go along with their choices. They can do this. Once, she hits proper teenagehood all bets are off.

Tbh, even without the race issue, there are some amazing places to visit all over Africa - many very, very safe, and it would be amazing for a 13yo to have that experience if you can afford it (which op says she can)

and to a pp - as a white person, I have felt safe in the parts of South Africa I visited. As with any country, you need to be careful in some areas and do your research.

This lady is Black British clearly with African roots. Maybe, her family originated from the Carribean, how is she meant to know where in Africa their actual lineage or roots are from?

Black British people have holidays in the Caribbean or various African countries as well as other parts of Europe and the world. We know, Africa is a massive continent, we know it has many countries, languages, tribes and cultures. We know there are Francophone countries and English speaking countries in Africa.

If she wants her daughter and husband to visit South Africa, well-known for tourism, because she has been once. What is the problem?

If he is happy to go to Vietnam, that he has no connection with, he should be able to agree to somewhere in Africa. Loads of people went to South Africa for the World Cup. It's a major tourist destination. There are lots of major tourist destinations in different Africa countries that they could go to.

All she wants is to experience it with her daughter and him, so their daughter can enjoy the sights, and appreciate a different Black culture in Africa.

Her and her daughter's heritage is African. So why not. Better than Dubai or Florida for that matter.

Surely there's more to threatening divorce besides suggesting a holiday destination. There's more to this and he's using it as a starting point.

Wrong.

OP isn’t from the Caribbean. She clearly stated her heritage is from an African country.

But as she is not planning to visit that country try mentioning her heritage is irrelevant. You Thailand analogy bears no relevance with that context.

? Because nearly every British-born black person has Caribbean great/grandparents. Every black Caribbean person descended from enslaved Africans.

Where did you read that??! I doubt that is still true I am sure the British-African community os twice as big.

And OP said her heritage is an “African country”.

The Caribbean is nowhere near Africa.

She did not mention race. A marriage can be mixed with people of the same race but different ethnicities.

Why do people keep mentioning the Caribbean?

OP has said clearly her heritage is from an African country though not the one she plans to visit.