AIBU to take my Year 7 daughter's smartphone away completely?

[ExasperatedIs]

I’m just sooo fed up of issues with my DD12 and her phone. She’s in Y7 at school and since she started her behaviour has been shocking and she’s always in trouble at school for attitude, being disruptive and late, makeup etc. Her attitude has been off the rails lately.
Anyway, onto her phone. I have had all the restrictions on it - screen time, not allowed to download apps, clean content etc, and she has managed to change this sooo many times. She has been trusted with WhatsApp before but my DB partner had seen disturbing status’s with her posing in a bra (my push up bra!), lip synching to music, crying, various attention seeking posts and she had hidden them from all our family forgetting to hide from her - so we had the discussion again about inappropriate things etc and removed what’s app, months later we let her have it again. Then similar things happened with snap chat and tik tok which she mithered to death to have so thought ok let’s see if she can be trusted and keep her word (promises about not posting pics and videos of herself etc) then again she was posting, attention seeking posts etc) so we talked about why she was too young to have them and using them inappropriately and hadn’t listened so had to wait until she older to have them.
Anyway yesterday I see she has two detentions at school already on a Monday for being late to two lessons. When she came home I said she couldn’t have her phone that evening. When I looked at her phone I could see she had been on it til midnight talking to her ‘boyfriend’ after bragging she had the screentime passcode and could alter her screentime, waiting until I go to bed, and she’s even pretending to be going to sleep when I go to her! She had actually stolen her dad’s phone and got the screentime code from a message I sent it to him. She had also downloaded Tik Tok again and posting videos and pics - posing in mirrors, lied in bed with push up bra on, etc etc. Also saw in her phone videos actually in lessons (phones aren’t allowed on school!) and she had posted pictures actually in school toilets so explains the lateness! So that’s it, I’ve had enough now. No matter what I’ve tried - restrictions, no restrictions, trusting her over and over again, explaining things, she just doesn’t listen and continues to be sneaky, lie and take no notice. Last night she refused to eat because I had taken her phone then said she will tell school I’m starving her! I just feel totally exasperated by it all. Not sure if anyone else in a similar boat and gone smart phone free? How have you managed it? Sorry for the waffle ! I just feel so upset at the level of disrespect and disregard. Nothing seems to sink in with her 😩

I know. I was talking about both so selected the youngest age.

What is the difference between a tablet/laptop or a smartphone? They all do the same thing?.
Well i must have trustworthy teens then as they have never got around family link.
how are phones not useful in an emergency? And emergency can be many different things for example my DD rang be back along as she has gotten lost, my DS has rang me from the skate park as he had cut his leg open both i would consider an emergency that they need to call me for.

What's the point in selecting an age that isn't at all relevant to the post?

Well done op

I massively regret letting my now 14 year old get a phone in year 7. The battles back and forth over it since then have been horrific

These devices and apps are designed to create the addictive and dangerous behaviour and obviously personality of each child makes some more vulnerable than others

I'm sure im not alone in having been much much stricter second time around. My younger child doesn't hafe a smart phone at all and as long as she is under 16 I won't be allowing social media at all

Interestingly after initial tears she stopped asking fairly quickly

I learnt it's easier to say no and be strict from the start than to row back later

@LameBorzoi I do think intrinsically some kids push the boundaries and are more addicted than others. Thsrs to be expected

I also belive family link is easier to use and harder to break than apple controls which experts have agreed are ludicrously complicated for parents and don't even block tik tok etc.

People saying 12 is too young for a phone. It's not . We all had them at that age and didn't go off the rails but things are so so different now

Social media and tik tok etc

It doesn't help that now adays kids have access to phones from about 6 years old even to just play games and go on YouTube they get so addicted

I definitely agree with just giving her a basic phone so you can contact her if needed

Well done for keeping it up

I've seen loads of people say the see a huge difference on their child once removing the phone or iPad.

Usually that they are calmer and less aggressive

I have all the restrictions on her phone

And so we ignored all that and allowed our 12 daughter to download Snapchat and Tiktok because she says all the other girls also have irresponsible parents and have them and we are too weak to challenge this.

Her phone usage has been a problem but we allow her to be able to take her phone to bed and she's then being messaging at midnight to her boyfriend

She's sent messages in a her underwear and we know about this.

Errrrr where's the parenting in all this? You stuck on restrictions and expected them to do all the parenting and now are blaming the smart phone not your lack of ability to say no to your daughter and are now wondering why when you have given an inch, she's taken a mile.

If you can't parent properly then yes the phone will have to go. She will probably then buy one for herself mind given her already piss poor attitude to you, so keep an eye on that.

The issue here is not really about the phone, though the phone is contributing to the problems.

A laptop in particular is far easier to monitor. You don't sneak them into the toilet. You need to boot them up. Whereas a phone is always there, always pinging, always demanding attention.

I don’t think its a tech issue, its a social media issue, so whether they are using social media on a laptop or smartphone there will be issues.
There is nothing wrong with a 12 year old having a phone imo, but social media is another thing, my kids don’t have any, not even facebook and i have never had an issue with them having phones from starting high school.

I can honestly say in the 7 days no without a phone the different is huge. I have my daughter back. Yes maybe a bit of attitude here and there but she’s been out and about with me, downstairs watching tv series together, she’s been less stressed. She went to a party Friday without it and said all her friends took photos and videos so she wants her phone back so they can send them, I just said you can see them on their phones? We go away this week and not having the phone then. I think smartphones are causing way more issues than we realise.
and to the idiot above who told me to ‘parent better’ you’re the perfect parent yourself are you??

I think you need to go to school and talk with them. They need to know what is happening. There is something not at all right here. The problem seems to have stemmed from something in school and this is information that they need so that they can take their own steps to deal with it.

The things children view on their phones take them way out of the normal sphere for a child, and way beyond what they can cope with psychologically.

It is so easy for a child to become fascinated with something that they do not fully understand; it becomes compulsive behaviour that they find hard to control. Poor lass will be awash in hormones and out of her depth.

At the very least if the school know they will have an explanation for the deterioration in her behaviour.

I really feel for you in this situation. YOu will need to be the "baddy" for a bit in order to get through this.

Yes school are fully aware and her Head of Year is very supportive. We had a Cahms meeting today which has typically just been cancelled because the member of staff is absent and they can’t cover it.

That's disappointing OP.
You did well getting Cahms involvement, they are notoriously reluctant. My dc's school would probably be useless in such a situation, what is your head of year doing that is helpful?

Yes, she has gone off the rails. That happened a long time ago.
I took my DS’s phone off him for almost a week for one unpleasant message. He would have lost it completely ages ago if he’d done a fraction of what your DD has done. She’s walking all over you and engaging in very risky behaviour.

Good to see the update that removal of the phone is bringing improvements. We all need to be prepared to take away phones and teach some tough lessons. When they show us they’re not mature enough to use them sensibly they need to go.

I wouldn't be dumb enough to let my child have snapchat. I don't have to be a perfect parent to make this decision and understand that the issue with snapchat is precisely that because messages disappear, parents can't monitor useage. Given that snapchat is used for naughty photos for precisely this reason (with naive users thinking that the receiptant can save those images), is a known safeguarding risk thats widely talked about by any school or advice group about online safety and you have a child who you know has been in her bra... This messaging is everywhere.

So yes I think you totally abdicated responsibilty and were stupid to go along with 'well all my friends...' and this is something you still need to address regardless.

Throwing the accusation about me not being perfect is once again you just abdicating your responsibility here. Its not about me. Its making out you were being totally responsible parents in one breathe because you put on phone restrictions and then saying and then we gave her snapchat because she begged us for it and there was peer pressure. Thats INSANE.

I seriously think you'd be wise to do some research into online safety anyway because you've clearly thought that phone controls can do a lot more than they can and lack a LOT of valuable knowledge even if you decide not to give her the phone back in the near future so you can help her navigate this in the future.

You need to accept your role in the situation that has arisen not just blame the device.

That's excellent that you've seen such an improvement, in only a week. Keep going.
Do school know about her sharing sexualised images? You'll need to share that with the SL.

I believe it’s the reason for a lot of the mental health crisis in the younger generation, my daughter being one. We used to visit a cottage on the Isle of Arran when she was younger, it has no broadband or signal, absolute bliss. She hated it for the first couple of days, then became normal again. You’re doing the right thing, believe me I’ve been there and my daughter is now 30.

She once had her phone confiscated on a Friday, the head of year called and explained she could collect it at the end of school, my husband told them to keep it for the weekend, the teacher agreed with us and admitted it was a big problem in school and pupil behaviour. I don’t know what the long term answer is, perhaps go the way Australia has, we need to protect the younger generation and the development of their brains 🥺

Op said the head knows about the images and is of year is supporting her daughter. dc's school notoriously disinterested in anything to do with phone use outside of school hours, I'm interested what support heads of year give in other better schools?

It's all well and true about snapchat but not all girls who have snapchat send risky images. Op's dd has problems over and above tech. Teens will be teens is one explanation but I'd like to know why some do engage in dodgy image making and sharing when many don't.

It's a very serious safeguarding issue, so we are significantly involved. We also involve the police.

@ExasperatedIs

"Believe me she’s had attention!! She was a Velcro baby and practiced attachment parenting! She literally only stopped getting up in the night and getting into our bed about 2 years ago. Had a nightmare getting her to sleep on her own for years."

OP you said the above - could this be why she's looking for so much attention off tiktok etc., because she's had such an abnormally high level of attention in past?

Not sure how it can be sorted though, the old level of attention isn't really sustainable to go back to, but her brain is now very much wired to that being normal ...

How do school affect behaviour change with 'boy mad' girls who behave in a risky way? I'd have thought it requires professional counselling. I cant help but think something must be amiss at home but thats probably ignorant, wishful thinking and judgemental. Horrible situation.

You're not completely wrong. In the first instance, this 12 year old girl on here has shared sexualised images, so the police need to be involved. What we usually do then is set up support for such children, who are clearly at risk. We work with different agencies, and support 1-2-1 to work on techniques for better self esteem and mental health. We involve the parents and can refer them for help and support.
It's important that we all work together. I feel sorry for some parents who are just weak and can't cope.