AIBU to take my Year 7 daughter's smartphone away completely?

[ExasperatedIs]

I’m just sooo fed up of issues with my DD12 and her phone. She’s in Y7 at school and since she started her behaviour has been shocking and she’s always in trouble at school for attitude, being disruptive and late, makeup etc. Her attitude has been off the rails lately.
Anyway, onto her phone. I have had all the restrictions on it - screen time, not allowed to download apps, clean content etc, and she has managed to change this sooo many times. She has been trusted with WhatsApp before but my DB partner had seen disturbing status’s with her posing in a bra (my push up bra!), lip synching to music, crying, various attention seeking posts and she had hidden them from all our family forgetting to hide from her - so we had the discussion again about inappropriate things etc and removed what’s app, months later we let her have it again. Then similar things happened with snap chat and tik tok which she mithered to death to have so thought ok let’s see if she can be trusted and keep her word (promises about not posting pics and videos of herself etc) then again she was posting, attention seeking posts etc) so we talked about why she was too young to have them and using them inappropriately and hadn’t listened so had to wait until she older to have them.
Anyway yesterday I see she has two detentions at school already on a Monday for being late to two lessons. When she came home I said she couldn’t have her phone that evening. When I looked at her phone I could see she had been on it til midnight talking to her ‘boyfriend’ after bragging she had the screentime passcode and could alter her screentime, waiting until I go to bed, and she’s even pretending to be going to sleep when I go to her! She had actually stolen her dad’s phone and got the screentime code from a message I sent it to him. She had also downloaded Tik Tok again and posting videos and pics - posing in mirrors, lied in bed with push up bra on, etc etc. Also saw in her phone videos actually in lessons (phones aren’t allowed on school!) and she had posted pictures actually in school toilets so explains the lateness! So that’s it, I’ve had enough now. No matter what I’ve tried - restrictions, no restrictions, trusting her over and over again, explaining things, she just doesn’t listen and continues to be sneaky, lie and take no notice. Last night she refused to eat because I had taken her phone then said she will tell school I’m starving her! I just feel totally exasperated by it all. Not sure if anyone else in a similar boat and gone smart phone free? How have you managed it? Sorry for the waffle ! I just feel so upset at the level of disrespect and disregard. Nothing seems to sink in with her 😩

My daughter is 12 and in year 7 and agreed the jump from primary to secondary is a lot, however, her behaviour is completely out of control. You've done the right thing taking her phone away, maybe you have been too complacent in the past but you do need to stick to your guns before things get worse. I would also talk to the head of year and tell them whag you've found, none of these girls should be doing thag. My daughter has Snapchat and WhatsApp which I check regularly, more because I dont trust other people. She's never had tiktok because the trends terrify me mainly. She will cope, she is clearly not emotionally mature enough for the phone at this point and the sexual behaviour is very worrying, I know my daughter and her friends have never done anything like that, definitely an attention seeking issue, maybe take her out for a costa or something and have a proper chat with her.

OP this is the most important issue. You need to talk to someone from a safeguarding perspective. She could be being groomed or abused.

Honedtly it sounds like there's a lack of consequences.
She posts photos of herself in underwear on line, she takes your husbands phone, she lies and decieves, she's badly behaved at school etc and it seems the only consequence is her phone. What else are you doing to tackle her blatant awful behavior?
She sounds like a troubled kid atm but it'll only get worse if you keep saying "well it's just kids isn't it, they all do it!"

I think taking phone away is reasonable. As other PP have suggested, think it would be a good idea to fill her time with activities, sports and hobbies.

slowly migrate her attention to other more productive areas that are fun and give her self confidence.

Yeah sorry to say this but I think you have to be comfortable with her saying she’s the weird one. She’s not by the way- there are loads of kids her age who have not got smart phones, tic tok etc. But you have to have the confidence to say “You’re my child and I am doing what is right for you- those other families do things their way, we do things our way.” Quite apart from anything else I wouldn’t imagine that they’ve been posing in a bra online and nicking their dad’s phone!

Re the activities- I absolutely insist on one sport and one other activity. They can choose and I will help them find something they like but they absolutely do not have the option to give up and sit at home watching you tube. It’s no coincidence either that it’s at the point when kids get their phones that their interest in activities can start to fade- hopefully if she’s not got a smart phone for a few years she can find some other interests again.

It may seem harsh/ thankless now but honestly she will thank you for this long term.

Oh and I meant to add- do not be tempted to give the phone back if she’s “good” for a few weeks. You have to be clear that it’s for her own mental health and wellbeing so it’s not a case of punishment/ earning back- she’s not ready and that’s the end of it. Otherwise I can almost guarantee that she’ll start the cycle again.

I'm afraid this is the same argument as if all the girls jumped off a cliff would you- the fact many girls are doing is no justification, plus there are plenty of 12 year old girls not uploading to Tik Toc, there are plenty of teenagers also not doing so.
You need to protect your daughter this kind of behaviour at this age is very unsafe.
You also need to address the elephant in the room why does your daughter feel it is acceptable to be so deceitful- clearly the problems go deeper than Tik Toc.

She needs real life female role models. She needs goals. She needs an alternative to toxic culture objectifying girls/women. And as she won't sort this out herself, it is lucky she has you on her side, OP.

Yeah I never cared if all the other kids had one, the only child I’m worried about is my child and phones are toxic and addictive.

Well done for taking it off her, stick to your guns and when you/if you give it back do so with strict rules in place. My rules were no phone in her bedroom, no more than 2 hours on her phone a day and no social media.

And sadly ALL the girls are the same!

No, absolutely not, they're not. My dd and her friends always ensure they cover their face with a phone or sticker when they post anything on What's App status.

I am genuinely concerned as your daughter's behaviour is hyper sexualised, it shows a huge lack of self respect.

We know of a girl just like this from the loveliest 'middle class' home you can imagine. Even though she isn't allowed a phone in y7, she managed to get hold of secret ones through friends. She’s been using her iPad to create various social media accounts with risky content while her mum found some, others remain hidden. This is at a top school.

The girls has recorded videos of her in a bra and her date topless and her mother is non the wiser. She is allowed to date but lies to her mum about which boy she is actually meeting (unsuitable ones) and has dated older boys. She is only 12 and has had over a dozen boyfriends.

I would be really interested how this happens especially with girls from stable, supportive homes. Are there any teachers or professionals here who know what factors contribute to that high risk hyper sexualise behaviour in say under 15s?

You have to come down hard now!
I told my dd that if she used WhatsApp like social media I.e a single status update, it would be gone. Also no groups other than close friends.

What other girls are doing is not your concern. YOUR 12 year old daughter is sending photos of her breasts(and likely more) to someone. Who is she posing for - some dirty old pervert on the internet is probably dribbling over her photos - wake up! This is a safeguarding issue and you as her parent need to take it more seriously before she ends up in real trouble. You should remove all of her electronic devices from her and ground her. I have no idea why you negotiating with her. If she doesn't want to eat her dinner, that's her issue. You are the adult not her. As a first step, you need to alert the school.

My DD has some of these behaviours (she’s now at uni). She had low self esteem despite everything being seemingly great about her life. She was diagnosed with ADHD and was struggling in so many ways which weren’t obvious to anyone else (we were aware). Her phone and anything related to it gave her instant dopamine hits constantly and something to hyper focus on. Medication and therapy helped and I feel very fortunate that we were able to afford it.

There could be many reasons for the behaviour. I’m just giving you one because it’s very easy to be outraged, not so easy to be that parent.

That should say had.

You are in denial if you think 'all girls' are the same. My daughter is year 8.

In friend group there are two only recently been allowed WhatsApp mid year 8. One of them is not allowed it.

My daughter and another not allowed to do status updates at all. I'm very strict about this!

None have snap chat to my knowledge. My daughter certainly won't be getting it.

Definitely not judging, these girls are vulnerable and need help. I can see how Adhd can be a contributing factor. In the case of the girl we know, that is unlikely though. I imagine some grow out of this phase as hormones settle. Some might have viewed inappropriate content /porn unbeknownst to their parents. I am just curious what other factors play into it when a girl is well brought up and all great throughout primary school. Phones and social media play a part but it's a symptom not the cause. Why do some girl go all boy mad lapping up any kind of male attention regardless of suitability and age. This is also a feminist issue, as I hate to think of these teenagers giving up all their power to the male gaze. The girl I know brags about her escapades.

Our daughter is now 30, so one of the first generation to be exposed to mobile phones. All I can say is that it was a bloody nightmare, an addiction. After one really dangerous act of bad behaviour we took the phone off her and gave no return date, it was like watching a drug withdrawal. She kept asking if she could have it back, but we refused until her behaviour changed, it was over a month before returning it.

We now know she has an addictive personality and is still glued to her bloody phone. This tech has definitely had an affect on her mentality, shockingly so. It’s now even worse, we never bought her a contract phone to her disgust, as according to her everyone else had one, yeah right.

It really isn’t easy and is destroying their childhoods. Back in the mid 90’s I worked for BT. To apply for an action man mobile phone you had to be over 18, have a landline and a credit check. I’m absolutely shocked at how easy it is now. More money for the unscrupulous tech billionaires at the expense of our childrens sanity, it’s abhorrent.

I completely feel your frustrations, it just isn’t easy. They’re exposed to so much at a young age. A medic once told me that they class someone an adolescent up to the age of 25, they’re scrambling their brain development in an unhealthy way, 😢

Year 7 it's an age group which is 11 turning 12 not a 7 year old!

At all our schools, smart phones are now banned until the kids are older; these are recent policies given the damage it seems to be doing to teens. Yanbu

Totally not to do with the Op as I wasn’t suggesting her daughter may have ADHD just pointing out how easy it is to be outraged.

But anyway you seriously can have no idea whether a person does not have ADHD, it can be easier to tell that they do. Many very successful and outwardly ‘together’ people have it.

I have boys so might be different but my son the same age as your dd doesn't have a phone at all. He has an old shared tablet with no wifi and the family computer.

Why not just only let her have the smart phone when she's in the same room as you, or some other formula that means she can't take dodgy photos and is unlikely to be viewing bad content? Letting her have a phone is one thing, but letting her have a phone in her room or a phone that you don't physically confiscate at night is madness at this age imho. Until age 15 my DD could only use her smart phone in the living room and when travelling to and from school. Other than that the phone was to be in a specific place in the kitchen. Around yr8 all social activities started to be organised on snap chat so she would have been quite isolated without being able to check it and chat with her friends on snap. But this way i felt like i had control over how it was being used. Obviously i had control of screen time and content through passwords from my phone as well.

I do suspect this and have for a while as he has lots of other traits. We have a meeting on Monday for an assessment with Cahms and I’ve told Cahms about everything I’ve said here. Believe me I’m doing all I can and have taken the phone away so many times, pit solid restrictions on but she always manages to sneakily bypass them and go behind my back so yes, the smartphone is gone now for the forseable future and we are addressing other concerns with Cahms.

Believe me she’s had attention!! She was a Velcro baby and practiced attachment parenting! She literally only stopped getting up in the night and getting into our bed about 2 years ago. Had a nightmare getting her to sleep on her own for years.

My daughter occasionally moans at how strict i am compared to other mums.

I dont care. And a lot of it is exageration. You are going to hear a lot of "but my friends have this, my friends do that" over the next few years...

you need to know what your boundaries, morals and standpoints are as a parent and stick to them.

If my daughter said "im left out im the wierd one" id just say "im sorry you feel that way but at least your safe".

Yes I get pushbacks occasionally but she bloody knows im stubborn and I mean what I say.

If she wants rewards/treats/taken to her clubs she tries her best at school, is polite and respectful, does her homework/revision and helps me round the house.....same rules since she was 4 🤷‍♀️

Consistency is key