AIBU to take my Year 7 daughter's smartphone away completely?

[ExasperatedIs]

I’m just sooo fed up of issues with my DD12 and her phone. She’s in Y7 at school and since she started her behaviour has been shocking and she’s always in trouble at school for attitude, being disruptive and late, makeup etc. Her attitude has been off the rails lately.
Anyway, onto her phone. I have had all the restrictions on it - screen time, not allowed to download apps, clean content etc, and she has managed to change this sooo many times. She has been trusted with WhatsApp before but my DB partner had seen disturbing status’s with her posing in a bra (my push up bra!), lip synching to music, crying, various attention seeking posts and she had hidden them from all our family forgetting to hide from her - so we had the discussion again about inappropriate things etc and removed what’s app, months later we let her have it again. Then similar things happened with snap chat and tik tok which she mithered to death to have so thought ok let’s see if she can be trusted and keep her word (promises about not posting pics and videos of herself etc) then again she was posting, attention seeking posts etc) so we talked about why she was too young to have them and using them inappropriately and hadn’t listened so had to wait until she older to have them.
Anyway yesterday I see she has two detentions at school already on a Monday for being late to two lessons. When she came home I said she couldn’t have her phone that evening. When I looked at her phone I could see she had been on it til midnight talking to her ‘boyfriend’ after bragging she had the screentime passcode and could alter her screentime, waiting until I go to bed, and she’s even pretending to be going to sleep when I go to her! She had actually stolen her dad’s phone and got the screentime code from a message I sent it to him. She had also downloaded Tik Tok again and posting videos and pics - posing in mirrors, lied in bed with push up bra on, etc etc. Also saw in her phone videos actually in lessons (phones aren’t allowed on school!) and she had posted pictures actually in school toilets so explains the lateness! So that’s it, I’ve had enough now. No matter what I’ve tried - restrictions, no restrictions, trusting her over and over again, explaining things, she just doesn’t listen and continues to be sneaky, lie and take no notice. Last night she refused to eat because I had taken her phone then said she will tell school I’m starving her! I just feel totally exasperated by it all. Not sure if anyone else in a similar boat and gone smart phone free? How have you managed it? Sorry for the waffle ! I just feel so upset at the level of disrespect and disregard. Nothing seems to sink in with her 😩

Also, Youtube is the worst for addictive scrolling.

I don’t understand. If this is Apple (I don’t have experience with android) then you have the control over your child’s phone completely. I can (and do) restrict screen time so the phone shuts down entirely after a certain amount of hours or at a certain time of day and there’s absolutely no way around this for them unless they know my pin which they don’t. I can also prevent them from downloading apps entirely without my permission which I have done - I get a notification asking for my permission for apps. I can block certain apps entirely. I can also shut down their phone at any given moment if they’re not listening to me which works like magic!

So yeah, this is on you provided android have similar features if you don’t have apple products. I allow but monitor snapchat and WhatsApp, I do not allow TikTok. My DD’s are older than yours and still hate that I don’t allow TikTok but I’m not budging on it!

For those saying don’t take away the phone, monitor it, use more controls, just why? This child is 11/ 12 and is clearly showing really concerning behaviour showing she cannot cope with a smart phone at all. She does not need a smart phone. In these circumstances with a young child why would you keep on dangling it in front of her but “restricting use” without just taking it away for a few years?

Of course it might be quite difficult for an adult to live in the current world with it a smart phone but not an 11 year old. She can maybe get one when she’s 14 or older. Why do some people insist on doing everything but the obvious (take the phone away)? Would you give your kids cigarettes but only allow them 1-2 a day, no. Would you let them drink just a few shots of vodka a day, no. This is the same. It’s like everyone thinks that not having a phone is in some way abusive or they’ve started working for Elon Musk.

I can’t even imagine why you’re asking. Just do it.

This is my experience too.

How are these kids getting round the Apple restrictions?

Android is pretty similar. However:

• Parents are scared of the tantrums that result if they shut it down entirely, so they don't use that function.

• Really addicted kids will steal pins, etc. It's like drug addicts - the lengths that they can go to are pretty astounding.

• These restrictions can make things worse. The kid knows that they can be given extra time, etc. This results in endless badgering, and parents give in, because they are only human. ( whereas if the phone doesn't exist, it's easier to resist going out and buying a phone ).

Given the level of deceit, the number of second chances that have been given (and broken!) and the general disrespect I'd be taking a sledgehammer to the phone.

Yeah restrictions are just like giving a coke addict a massive bag of coke and then saying that they can only have a teaspoon. It’s like torture for someone who’s properly addicted- they’ve got the phone, they know that the apps that give them the dopamine hit are there, they just can’t use them. Better just to take it away.

That’s a long list of very bad behaviour. It’s obvious to remove her phone in my opinion. Is this a sudden change or has she always been badly behaved?

Ha, yes. And taking the tablet on holiday is like taking an alcoholic to Oktoberfest.

Absolutely take it away from her

She is on Day 3 now of no phone and slowly starting to talk more, saying ‘love you’ again and less attitude
result! Don't bring the iPad on holiday.

Agree about the tablet on holiday!
Why?!

But then I also dont agree with kids in pushchairs on screens or sat at the table in a restaurant on screens (we take uno or dobble and colouring etc)

My children survive a 6 hour car journey without screens, and they also queue for rides at theme parks 180 minutes plus without screens. I just dont get what people aren't getting.....they are proven to damage concentration, self esteem and mental health. They just aren't necessary.

Agree that everyone needs downtime, no issue with my kids watching the tv after school, they watch a film or something but that is a totally different effect to brain rot on YouTube or short reels on tiktok. They also have Nintendo switches but dont really bother with them apart from a quiet weekend. No online access though

Sounds like lame excuses to me, sorry. Are we parents or not? It’s our job to be firm and put necessary restrictions in place. Kids always kick up a fuss when they think something is unfair and have for as long as time… Prior to smartphones it was games consoles or computers and before that TVs. This isn’t new, parents need to get a hold of it and put their foot down.

Also, how would they steal the pin? Unless you were stupid enough to do it in front of them.

This is one of the most oblivious posts I've ever read on Mumsnet. I myself am REALLY harsh and strict, and detest Parents being too soft with their kids, but reading this reply I feel so so sad for your Daughter. Attention when she was a clingy baby, or 2 years ago isn't relevant to her any more. She needs your time and attention AS A TWELVE YEAR OLD.

I've had a younger kid steal a pin. It's hard to be vigilant 100% of the time.

I agree that parents need to put boundaries in place. It's just that for younger teens, especially those who are device - obessed or trying hard to push boundaries, "no smartphone at all" can be a much more effective boundary, and lead to less conflict.

How is your dd doing now @ExasperatedIs ? Has she got her phone back?

No still no phone back! And it’s crazy how much better she has been without it in such a short period of time.

I don’t think you’re overreacting. At this point it sounds less like “normal phone use” and more like the phone is completely taking over.
You’ve actually given her a lot of chances already. Restrictions, talks, trust, second chances… and she’s still finding ways around everything, staying up late, filming in school, posting things she knows she’s not allowed to and lying about it.
Year 7 is still really young for unrestricted TikTok/Snapchat/WhatsApp in my opinion. A lot of adults can’t handle social media well, never mind a 12-year-old.
I’d probably take the smartphone away for now and switch to a basic phone for calls/texts only. Not forever, just until she can show a bit more maturity and honesty around it.
And honestly, the stealing the screentime code and filming in lessons would concern me more than the selfies themselves.

I disagree. 7 years old is not too young. You 'just' need to manage the situation. It's easy to say take the phone away but children can go psycho and be very draining. Try be patient and talk it though with her regularly. Use realistic incentives and threats which could work. Be persistent. Not saying it's easy but that's my view.

Have you tried talking to her about the risks and realities of intimate image sharing

@TalkToTheHand123
She’s in Year 7 - not 7 years old

I bought my oldest, second oldest and now my thirds phone when they went up to high school as they all walk to and from school and wanted to make sure they could contact me in an emergency, they didn’t have a phone at all before then, i have family link on their phones so i can see what they are downloading and they are not allowed social media until they are 16.
year 7 is the ideal age really as they will start needing to learn to be independent, plus most of their homework, school lunch money etc is on apps now.

As a PP said, the OP's daughter is in year 7, she's not 7 years old. I think age 12 is far too young for a smartphone, there is no way a 7-year-old should have a phone of any kind IMO.

There are multiple studies demonstrating how harmful smartphones are to young teens. Just because people do it, doesn't mean it's ok.

Family link is pretty easy to get around.

Apps can be on a tablet or laptop. Schools should not be making them mandatory.

I don't think they are useful in emergencies. Either it's a proper emergency, in which case they yell for help ( phone no real use here) or they go back to school or find a shop / neighbour and use their phone.