Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

Link?

No - fascists are far right.

Reform are fascists.

Oh, and Labour doesn't need to out-Reform Reform.

Local election turnout in England was about 34%.
So Reform got roughly 30% of 34% of the eligible electorate - which is around 10-11% of all eligible voters.

About 89-90% of the people legally able to vote either chose somebody else or stayed home}

I've anecdotally heard Reform voters who've said 'I won't vote for them in a GE, but I wanted to send a message and this was a safer way to do it' - so a chunk of that 10-11% who voted Reform are probably easily gettable.

If Labour get their act together, ideally get Burnham in, or involved in a more meaningful way by Christmas, and implement visible, tangible change in people's lives, they can lead on a platform of patriotism, energy security, prosperity and security without having to do any Reform pandering.

Why is that so important to you? What objective evidence do you have that immigration is impacting significantly on your welfare and your finances? Why is this topic so hugely offensive to you when multimillion pound companies avoiding tax, for example, isn't? Why are people so hell bent on believing the racist and completely untrue retoric of scum like farage just because they want fewer immigrants? Why is he being allowed air time at all never mind being allowed anywhere near No.10? Why is a single person in the UK so desperate to vote him in when he's proven himself to be nothing but a weasly little liar. He got his way with brexit and nothing has changed for the better. Reform are leading some local councils and they've all either gone bust or the counsillors have left. Why does the country think that other political parties need to pander to this shit to get votes back? Is honest and democratic politics not important to anyone any more?

nope, not anymore. It is a left wing ideology now. No one on the right is suppressing opposition. Quite the opposite in fact.

I honestly think the cost of living and making issues harder for small and medium size businesses including farmers and pubs is one of key mistakes of Labour. I think if had been successful in the economy other problems would have fallen away for many.

Absolutely this. Pushing Starmer out will give free range to the far left and that is not what people want.

Sorry but thats complete and utter bollocks.

The definition of fascism is a far right authoritarian regime. The US MAGA regime is arguably there. Reform is trying to follow in its footsteps.

why do people want controlled immigration? Are you serious?

Do you believe in totally open borders?

The rose of reform is terrifying. The county I love is in the process of turning into a very nasty divided place. Influenced by such biased reporting like the Mail and GB News.

Read this article and worry.

Meanwhile. Written by someone called Claudia Karl:
🇩🇪 Speaking as a German.
I grew up in a country where every history lesson, every memorial, every awkward family dinner eventually circles back to the same uncomfortable question: how did ordinary, decent people let it happen? How did a respectable European democracy slide, in barely a decade, into something that ended with six million Jewish lives extinguished, millions of others murdered alongside them, and a continent in ruins?
The answers are never simple. But the rhetoric — the rhetoric was never subtle. And it is the rhetoric I want to talk about, because I have heard this song before. 🚩
A certain Austrian gentleman (you know the one) and his party told their country a very specific story. Listen now to what is coming out of Reform UK and Nigel Farage. Not the policies. Not the personalities. Just the language.
⸻

1. "The country is broken. The country has lost itself."

Hitler, in his first radio address as Chancellor on 1 February 1933, told Germans they had been blinded by promises, had forgotten the highest values of their past, and — his exact words — that "the misery of our people is terrible". (Source: Facing History archive, Hitler's first radio address) Facing History Nigel Farage on Twitter, December 2022: "Britain is broken." In Blackpool, June 2024, he expanded: nothing works any more, the country is in cultural decline, "we've begun to forget who we are". (Source: ITN/Reuters reporting of Farage's Blackpool speech) Xonenewspage Same key. Different decade. ⸻

1. "We are being invaded by foreigners."

Hitler, addressing the Reichstag in January 1939, declared "Germany to the Germans" and said the nation must prevent the settlement on its soil of a strange people. (Source: Yad Vashem, transcript of Hitler's Reichstag speech, 30 January 1939) Yad Vashem Reform UK, August 2025, Oxford Airport: Farage said Britain was undergoing "an invasion" and described asylum seekers as a national security threat. April 2026, Reform's own home affairs spokesman Zia Yusuf: a Reform government will "reverse the invasion of Britain". (Source: World Socialist Web Site reporting Farage's Oxford Airport speech; GB News on Reform's deportation plan) World Socialist Web SiteGB News Same key. Different decade. ⸻

1. "The establishment has betrayed you."

Hitler, at his 1924 trial, called the surrender of 1918 "a stab in the back of the German nation" — Germany, he said, had not really lost; the army had been betrayed by Jews, leftists and the Weimar elites. This single myth, repeated and repeated, did more than perhaps any other to bring him to power. (Source: Alpha History, transcript of Hitler's 1924 trial speech) Alpha History Farage, August 2025, on the grooming gangs scandal: "The establishment has failed". The drumbeat is constant: ordinary Britons have been sold out by Westminster, by the courts, by the police, by an entire metropolitan class. (Source: Wikipedia, "Political positions of Nigel Farage") Wikipedia Same key. Different decade. ⸻

1. "The country must awaken. We are taking it back."

Hitler at the Berlin Sportspalast, addressing the SA and SS: "Germany has now awakened". The nation, he told them, was the master of its own destiny again. (Source: USHMM Holocaust Encyclopedia film archive) Holocaust Encyclopedia Farage at the Reform conference, 2024 — his line which has since been painted across every Reform rally and bus: "Britain is broken... Britain needs reform". Take our country back. (Source: The Spectator's report on Farage's Reform conference speech) spectator Same key. Different decade. ⸻ I am not saying these men are the same. I am not saying Reform UK is the NSDAP. I am saying — and I cannot be quiet about this, because my country knows what comes next — the speeches are written in the same key. And we know how that key ends. 🇩🇪 Germans know it in our bones. We have spent eighty years apologising. Every schoolchild visits a camp. Every family, sooner or later, has the conversation. Every public building has a plaque. There is no statute of limitations on what our grandparents allowed, and there will not be one in eighty years' time either. So I have to ask, neighbour to neighbour: Have we really learned nothing? 😞 Do British voters truly want to spend the next eighty years apologising the way Germany has had to? Because that is the road. It always starts politely. It starts with "just asking questions" and "concerns about immigration" and a respectable suit and a friendly smile. It never announces itself with jackboots. By the time it does, it is too late. It is much, much easier to say no to this rhetoric now — while it still wears the suit and the smile — than to spend a lifetime explaining it to your grandchildren. 🇩🇪🇬🇧

For me it’s the welfare reform that I feel is unforgivable. There was talk of reforms and they backed off because of the labour backbenchers making a fuss.

Then they went the other way and lifted the cap on two child benefit for universal credit and I just felt that was unforgivable.

I am here working incredibly hard with one child in two minds as to whether I can afford another child. I probably won’t have another one. But if I was in receipt of universal credit I’d get more money….

I normally vote labour/lib dem depending which constituency I’ve been living in but recently I’ve felt very unsure of who to vote for.

Labour ARE listening. The problem is that the problem is unsolveable. We don't have enough money to go round and we have a massive, economically inactive population - not because of immigration, but because of retired people. They are by far the biggest drain on the welfare state. Ironically we need immigration because we don't have a large enough working population to support them. No party can square the circle of not enough money coming in via tax or any other means to support an increasingly non-working population.

Reform will not be able to tackle this any more than Labour or the Tories can. And they were the ones who started the 'small boats' in the first place thanks to their idiot leader Farage and the idiotic Brexit project.

But actual illegal immigration/unauthorised entry - however you want to phrase it - is a tiny proportion of immigration as a whole. It's just that the boats of people arriving or being rescued attract the obvious headlines and can very easily be weaponised as it's so emotive, and presses some people's buttons.

I suggest you look up the meaning of fascism and have another think - you’re so far off the mark.

It presses mine, for sure.

But they are very few women and children crossing illegally!

That's your only response to my questions are you serious? If you lack any critical thinking about a subject it's probably best not to start a discussion about it.

Erm - what? Have you seen what Trump is doing in the USA? What was the January 6th Capitol riot if not an attempt by the hard right to suppress opposition?

Literally every dictator alive today is on the right.

If you think fascism is anything to do with the left, then you also need a read through the history books.

Every time Labour loses an election, the reason is always "we're not far enough to the left".

It then takes them a good 15 years to slowly tack back to the centre.

The simple truth is that the voters want a party who will put them first, even if it involves hardship. But with a current deficit of 120bn per year, I think everyone is getting a bit fed up with the country living beyond its means.

Some hard discussions need to come about state pensions and welfare (whoever gets in). It's not that they're super generous, but workers wages don't seem to be protected from inflation in the same way.

I left the Labour Party 30 odd years ago, having been quite active. Mostly because it was always "you must support us, then after the revolution we'll be able to deliver feminism, gay rights, etc". Just too much idealism of big change rather than the pragmatism of continuous small improvements.

Kim Jong Un?

I actually disagree. To me, the two big issues are the cost of living and the NHS backlogs.

What has that got to do with the UK?

the fact is if you are going around trying to cancel people by calling them Facsists, you are authoritarian yourself, demanding that they vote and think you way or else. That is Fascism in my view. Everyone is allowed to be left, right or centre and we are all allowed our own views on issues without being called names. I am pretty centrist myself, some left wing and right wing views but honestly when I hear the word ‘Fascsm’ being bounded about on threads like this it repels me right to the right. I don’t want to be associated with groups who demand I think and vote a certain way.

You are trying to engage on the wrong forum - many people on here either left wing or pretend to be/virtue signalling. I would be thrilled to know how many of them would save up to pay for private school fees for migrant children, for example. (I know, silly question since we have many stepmums on here moaning about private school fees for children from previous marriages). Because at the end of the day most people objections about illegal and legal migration are economic, not racist - I never once read a post saying 'bloody Arabs bought up all Selfridges and Harvey Nicks products again' - people love when wealthy foreigners move in, keep the luxury economy going, send their children to private schools, go private medically - people genuinely don't mind that. It is migrant spongers who get people's heckles up, that is all.
MNers are so good with boundaries - 'tell your MIL to do one', 'tell his children by his first wife to fuck off', boundaries with friends too - 'tell them you are not going halves on this meal, they are cf-ers, trying to sponge off you', shame they don't apply the same logic to other boundaries.

Labour need to recognise they got into power by default. Because the right were divided. Not because particularly the country voted in swathes for their manifesto. Or for the top team.
Angela Raynor is too Marmite to go anywhere near a top job again. Ms Freebie should forget about that.