Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

Labour lost to both Reform and the Greens. They are not right wing enough for Reform voters and not left wing enough for Green voters.
Personally as a lefty, I don’t want them becoming Reform lite. They can see what is happening as well as everyone else but they weren’t voted in on a platform of stop the boats and cut welfare.
Why did all these up in arms voters not try harder to get the Conservatives elected at the last GE?
If you didn’t want increased welfare why didn’t you turn up in droves to stop the Labour Party winning the election and then doing what Labour do?

Well they did try but the backbenchers revolted. And yet it's all Starmer's fault.

That's not 100% correct. They have done quite a bit but they are not great self publicists like the Tories and Reform.

There is a vast difference between anti immigration rhetoric that doesn't actually reduce immigration or deal with the problems and actual policies that address immigration problems but which may not appeal to reform types.

Why is it corrupt to apply for a passport in another country if you legitimately think you are liable?

I agree. She basically said we listened but then re stated all the Labour policies people don’t like as the answer. And Manchester is not an exemplar to be called out as a blueprint for the solution. All they glistens here is not gold.

They need to start listening to the public on immigration and learn how a successful economy should work.

I think you are completely right. "Stop the boats" is not the same as "zero Immigration"

I agree with you OP.
Matthew Syed wrote an excellent article in the times over the weekend explaining it well for people who may be struggling to grasp.
The sneers about racists are missing the point. Labour is hooked on welfarism. Rayner thinks just get the rich to pay more; shake the money tree again. It won’t fix it and it won’t fix the problems of unfairness where ordinary working people are struggling but see others sitting on their back sides funded by the state.

I'm not advocating Rayner for Leader but I think comments like that are absolutely horrible and snobbish. She connects well with people and she came from a terribly hard background and made something of herself. We should celebrate that. Your comment is nasty.

I hope you meant to say British not English.

Well…they are.

Because people are angry and stupid? They need a focus for both. Brown people and the likes of Farige are ideal for that.

Because of actively campaigning to reduce the rights of UK passport holders. Job done! Restrictions on how long UK passport holders can spend in mainland Europe now, so let’s apply for a better one.

^"Both British and EU+ net migration is negative. In other words, more people are leaving the UK than arriving. The data and method improvements we’ve made mean British net migration in recent times is around 100,000 per year lower than we were previously estimating, while EU+ net migration, although still negative, is now around 20,000 higher than we previously said. Overall, the impact of our changes from these groups on our net migration estimates is in the region of negative 80,000 per year since 2023." https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2025/11/27/what-is-driving-the-current-fall-in-net-migration/]^

I like to read ONS blogs from time to time, this one causes me to wonder whether your statistic is comparing apples with apples. There have been improvements in data collection, which should make things more quantitative and objective - but we are going through a transition in the measurement system, so......

I agree that the two biggest issues are illegal migration and welfare reform. I guess we'll have to try and be more collaborative with France (good luck with that!) to tackle the illegal migration issue. Once they're here, of course we have to house them, and therein lies the problem.

Regarding welfare reform - Starmer's up against his own MP's who seem to think the taxpayer is an endless resource to be tapped at every opportunity. People on PAYE are absolutely sick of this, and quite rightly so. For a start they should increase the personal allowance for everyone. Ok, people will say it has to be paid for, but a decent economist (i.e. not Rachel Reeves) should be able to juggle the books to accomplish this.

The cliff edge of benefits is so wrong - for example, have a small private pension and, quite rightly, you pay tax and council tax - so you're still an active participant in society, doing your bit. But be on pension credit in a rented house and everything's paid - rent, council tax, free dentistry, free glasses. So that person who has tried to think ahead and provide for themselves feels like they're being punished - personally when I was thinking about providing for my retirement I certainly hadn't factored in council tax of approx. £3k per annum for an ordinary house.

Likewise young working people - paying lots of tax on PAYE - let people keep more of their income. This would also help low paid people too, who get income support. I know my opinion is unpopular on mumsnet, but I believe people should be encouraged to be more self reliant. The generosity of the benefits system has gone too far now. I speak as someone whose mum, as a young woman, was disabled through polio - so I totally get that severely disabled people and disabled children need society's support to live a decent life.

Depressing thoughts for a Monday morning!

I think it features more heavily for some. That and Rayner spelling corrections.

It absolutely does take a lot of brass to see the nation overwhelming vote for a set of policies completely as odds with her own and still going ‘yeah you are all wrong, I know best’ and still thinks she’s electable. Delusional honestly.

Agree. I don't want an anti immigration party, and I don't know anyone who does. People like me count too, we don't need to pander to the lowest common denominator

FWIW Rayner might be in for a nasty shock in her own constituency - she’s not well liked and the candidate who came in second in 2024 was Reform. Tameside elected so many Reform councillors they’re now the official opposition. She could well lose her seat.

I am not a fan of Sir Keir as PM (although I think he's a decent man) but, honestly, the alternatives being suggested are terrifying. And Angela Rayner is the worst of the lot - if she becomes PM, then we'll become a laughing stock across the world.

sorry, you haven’t answered my question. Please send me a link to your claim that applying for a passport in another country where you legitimately think you have a claim is corrupt.

also I haven’t seen his children campaigning fir anything. Why do you think because their father believes something, that they must believe it as well?

do you agree wit everything your parents believe in?

I don’t.

anyway, we have one totally off topic, so I wint be commenting on this anymore.

It makes little sense that to beat Reform you have to be more left wing!! Under Corbyn the left promised everything but the kitchen sink and still lost the election.
Whether it’s right or wrong - immigration and the welfare bill are what politicians are finding on the doorstep.

Yes. We no longer seem to have standards on who can be elected into positions of power any more.

She’s twice got into serious trouble with HMRC, there was a convicted terrorist allowed to stand for recent election (the poor British guy who was kidnapped abroad to secure said terrorists release was horrified), it appears that a young man convicted of attacking a teenage girl with a claw hammer has been elected for the Greens (I have seen the reports and the photographs of the suspected person and am satisfied it is the same guy but will not mention any names until it is independently or publicly confirmed), Islamist MPs who are openly only promoting Muslim interests, there is the Starmer/Mandelson/Epstein friendship/state security issue plus Starmer taking free stuff from his extremely wealthy friends and working with his chum Hermer (and has now promoted to Attorney General) to hound out Forces Veterans on charges they knew early on to be lies - the list is so long.

And Starmer promised he was different.

It's rather ironic, all the people considering emigrating because of the number of immigrants, what do they think they will be in their new country? Oh I know "ex-pats". I hope they remember that before they voted for the grifting gurners policies they could have moved to any EU country without problem.