Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

I don’t want an anti immigration policy but I want a government to really look into why we need it. We are a small, over populated country, and I honestly struggle to understand how we are not able to resource ourselves properly with the population we have. Genuinely find it baffling. It is one thing wanting people who do very niche roles but other than that there is something fundamentally wrong that we can’t train up the doctors/nurses etc that we need internally.

Most people are considering immigrating because of tax reasons, which is so concerning.

It’s what bothers me and most of my family and quite a few earlier immigrants.

Why do you think not?

I also don’t want an anti immigration party, but I do want immigration to be controlled and considered.

But who else can they blame? It is his party and he is the leader. If his party won't push through the reforms then it is down to him.

They will punish the left of center MPs at the next election but in the meantime all they can do is punish the labour councillors and Keir Starmer will probably pay the price.

I know, and it can also be the ones we would like to stay who are leaving.

The level of processing and returns of irregular arrivals has increased under this government, although nobody appears to be reporting it.

I really don’t think this is really about immigration but cost of living and a terrible job market. I know so many people who have been going through restructures in middle management/exec roles. There seems to be very little confidence at that level which in turn means people that otherwise might be spending on services aren’t or are cutting back in some ways. The reforms re NI have then also really hit companies who hire a lot of people at or around minimum wage so the job market seems to be taking a hit all over. I think it’s really about a lack of confidence in public services and the economy. Reform has found a scapegoat for that.

It’s still not resolved, HMRC is still awaiting a £40,000 repayment.

And that’s aside from fraudulently having overvalued the family home so she could draw down sufficient for the deposit in the £600,000 beachfront flat down south! From her son’s Trust Fund. How???
Those that have the means will find ways to circumvent the system. They’re all mired in corruption.

I think that people who complain about immigration are mostly concerned with illegal immigration, which "ex-pats" very rarely are.

Reports from the doorsteps disagree with you.

illegal immigration and increased welfare were the main issues raised.

No, it won't be (comparing apples with apples). As you say, the ONS have only recently started to look at who is leaving, so the data doesn't exist yet. It will be interesting to see once it starts to emerge.

The key for me is that the current government are processing faster, so backlogs will reduce and arrivals will be processed much more quickly.

If the arrivals by boat are processed rapidly and returned where necessary, that will likely be a discouraging factor to start the journey. That said, it isn't necessarily the individuals who are making informed decisions, they are just buying in to what is being sold to them by the gangs running things.

It isn't a quick fix situation as Reform will find out should they ever gain the chair. Most of the methods they have stated currently are either not possible or are against the law. It is very easy to say what would happen when one has no responsibility. I have a feeling a lot of newly elected councillors will be discovering this in the coming months.

But that’s not why people are emigrating. People emigrate overwhelmingly for financial reasons. People also dislike illegal immigration and a large part of this is the cost of policing and then sustaining those who come illegally

Exactly - its inconceivable that she could end up as PM when far better educated people are expected to go through several rounds of interviews and a psychometric test just to land a bar job these days (thanks to Labour policies). The UK cannot afford ideological politics - every policy needs economic scrutiny and ongoing transparency.

There are plenty of people who want to see anyone who isn't white and English forced out.

That is an extreme view though and not remotely representative of the majority. There are many other extreme views that you can find espoused by ‘plenty of people’ like the Islamist view that we should all be forced to live under sharia law and be coerced into becoming Muslim for example.

It is not at all helpful for people to keep using the views of a tiny minority to discredit the majority.

The majority just want to feel that our borders are under control and that we can reject or deport criminals or immigrants that do not respect us or our country.

Sorry but you obviously do not know what socialism is. We live in a capitalist system.
Just because someone is left wing, and supports high regulation, high welfare, that is not socialism.
Please don't let us become like the US where anyone left of centre is 'socialist'. Just like anyone right of centre isn't a fascist.
We need to use words and concepts accurately.
No, I'm not a fan of Raynor's, BTW.

most of the methods they have stated currently are either not possible or are against the law

Then they will ignore the law - I think that’s what people are hoping. It’s the approach Trump has taken in America.

For every 10 voter Labour lose to Reform, they're losing 16 to the Greens.

People emigrate because of tax and the economy and quality of life. Rarely do people emigrate because of immigrants, People may perceive, rightly or wrongly, that their home/host country has a terrible economy, high taxes, and a collapse of the previous “high trust society” lifestyle because of open borders, but that’s not quite the same thing. Lots of people are perfectly happy to life as an immigrant (or ex-pat - they are different things) or return to their home country or swap out the UK for a different host country if it means they aren’t taxed 40p in the pound plus 20% of practically everything they buy and then have to pay council tax, fuel duty, insurance tax, national insurance etc. on top yet still don’t get that burglary they reported investigated, still have to read about another social service, health service or probation service fuck-up due to underfunding (plus the general societal rot that leads to the pressure on those services) and then burst their tyre on a pothole and can’t afford the train fare to work.
The people emigrating are not necessarily the same “they” as the Brexiteers,
I’m a second gen immigrant- not an emigrant or a brexiteer, but I can totally see why so many people are choosing to take a chance abroad. I like it here but, fuck me, all these stories about migrant crime rates (and crappy light sentences because the poor lambs didn’t know rape is frowned upon followed by inability to deport), unemployment (particularly grad unemployment - particularly nurse/midwife/AHP employment) and the government saying it can’t reform welfare and parents can’t even be expected to give their own kids breakfast anymore is depressing as fuck.

Well it’s not capitalist that for sure.

whilst it may not be socialism to the furthest extent, any redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. We have a capiltalist economy with socialism policies within that. We wouldn’t have the NHS otherwise. It does work with the consent of the people. But the issue with welfare is it does t have the consent of the people in the format it is in now.

I hate Reform and think they are fascists. If Reform get in our country is going the way of the MAGA US fascist regime. It will be horrendous

However I do agree with you OP. Labour doesn't need to move further left it need to move further towards the centre. The proposed changes to welfare eg changing the rules around the winter fuel allowance and keeping the 2 child welfare cap were the right policies and would have helped them to persuade people they were acting in the interests of the country. They also need to be stronger on illegal immigration since the country clearly feels very strongly about illegal immigration.

Moving further left simply means they will lose more votes. The far left already vote left. The centrist left will switch their vote. Unfortunately I don't actually believe a labour government can ever be successful anyway since the hard left back benchers will never let moderate policies through.

Angela Raynor is awful and I'm struggling to understand why her voice is being listened to anyway after she was removed from her position due to her fraudulent misconduct.

Her statement was actually pretty good - it identified the main issues and named the frustration of people wanting to feel the effects of policy themselves. Competence is fine but without tangible evidence for normal working people it's always going to lose against rhetoric and slogans with simple fixes to complex problems.

If you want immigration to come down, take a look at the graph. Which direction do you see the numbers going?

And benefits - yes, pensions are a huge cost to the state, but the triple-lock is a political grenade so no party wants to touch it.

The biggest problems are around literacy and communication of this stuff. The average person is clueless as to the actual numbers, and the average politician is hopeless at communicating them effectively.

If immigration numbers are falling, that tells one story.

If small towns are quickly receiving large numbers of non-EU migrants, who are unskilled, unsupported, and culturally incompatible with their neighbours, that's a separate story. And it's one that drives a lot of people's voting intention, whether it's first-hand, or third-hand, or based on misinformation from a party with a slicker social media operation and no squeamishness about outright lying to get votes.

So yes - welfare should be discussed. Immigration should be discussed. But it's pointless if people don't 1) use tangible, evidence-based points and 2) listen to the other side and talk to each other like human beings.

Are you joking? Do you not see the daily boatloads of undocumented males arriving on our shores???? Are you happy to have them living in an HMO next to your child’s schools, wandering the streets freely?

How naive are people to not believe the risk of malicious governments sending these infiltrators deliberately to our shores to foment unrest. Like Russia and Iran for instance.
If I were them I’d do it to cause mayhem and instability on the streets and destabilise the country.

Every single illegal migrant needs to be deported back to France from whence they came.

Something needs to change but I don't know whether removing Starmer will be worse - look who is waiting in the wings: Lammy / Rayner. Both of those even more divisive politicians.

They have lost their way and sadly u-turns, taxes and illegal immigration have turned voters against them. They don't seem to be able to read the mood of the country. Whilst the elections last week were local and should have been cast on local issues, I suspect many people voted Reform because they are so fed up and feel let down by the big 2 parties.

I have family in Crowborough where the army migrant camp is housing 600 men and where there was considerable fierce opposition by locals - fell on deaf ears and pushed through by the Home Office. There are local people now patrolling the streets so kids can get to school safely, you now do not walk certain routes, you certainly can't as a lone female walk your dog alone in the forest, and people can't sell their houses. That might sound dramatic to some, but until this is on your doorstep it is hard to understand how awful it is for local residents

I find this odd. The left are the definition of fascists. Think and act how we tell you to and anyone who disagrees needs to be cancelled (or worse according to the placards at left wing demonstrations). Whether you agree or disagree with reform, they aren’t suggesting anyone gets cancelled or ostracised for not supporting them. They are simply making their case and you either like it or you don’t. That’s democracy not racism. I find the ANTIFA group the most ironic of all movements! Literally the opposite of what it says on the tin!

Sadly, no government is ever going to solve illegal immigration. Reform aren't going to wave a magic wand and it all stops. Its as or more profitable than the illegal drugs trade and no government has been able to stop that either.
I do think people think that reform will be able to just close the gates, but they are deluded.
Short of shooting the boats and drowning the people in them.. which obviosuly is not an option, then its going to continue.
We havent got enough prisons for our own criminals, let alone trying to build camps as a deterrent. And then what about women and children, should they be put into camps etc... its a global problem and almost an impossible one to solve.