AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

I get that you took her out the pushchair, but could you have not put her back in it?
She literally had her very own seat waiting for her.

I was always brought up that you offer seats to elderly people.

If the man was pointing to the area, how do you know he was referring specifically to the seat your Dd was in? I would have assumed he was referring to all of them, but you engaged and the the other two played squirrel and didn't.

It was standard practice when GenX were kids. It was our parents telling us to give our seats up because that’s how it worked then. We were expected to behave a certain way and it was a lot less child centric then.

The hyperbole about the child hurtling down the carriage is ridiculous. She should have been in the pushchair (yes I know why she wasn’t but it’s still unreasonable). Or on her morher’s lap. That way she is safe and she isn’t taking up a disproportionate amount of space on a busy train. But apparently she was grumpy so that’s okay then.

Just a douche looking for an argument with easy prey — too much of a coward to go after the healthy adults sitting nearby. Don’t let it make you question yourself; put it out of your mind.

Are you a GenX by any chance or have you just been brought up well?

That’s quite the assumption.

At first I 100% would have agreed with you. As a childminder, with a pushchair and other toddlers walking I absolutely see the toddlers as priority for sitting down. Will use the priority seats when needed as they are close to me and the pushchair. Only exception to this is when they’re already busy OR someone gets on who clearly can’t make it to any other seat or there’s someone very vulnerable and there are no further seats. This is not ideal though as under 5s find it difficult to keep their balance on a moving bus. It’s very dangerous. Just to clarify, I, myself, am often standing on the bus so wouldn’t take up a priority seat unless it was genuinely empty and only then would sit to be near the pushchair.

however in this case (as per the OP) there was an available seat (buggy) for the child so the child should have been put in the buggy and allowed the seat for someone else. No brainer.

We no longer have those notices because times have changed for the better. This full price ticket no longer applies. As an OAP I get free travel on buses. London based OAPs get free travel on the tube. If this defunct logic applied then these OAPs would be required to stand.

Pushchair or lap. Case closed.

Well its a good job youve moved out if london where there are no 'nutters'

OAPs are in fact required to stand apparently. Or at least prioritise the comfort of children.

I don’t think it is for the better when a child can be put in their pushchair (which, let’s face it, is usually huge) but instead is allowed to take a seat as well because she’s ‘grumpy’.

I’ve seen this so many times on buses. Parents with massive pushchairs, sometimes double ones not able to get them in wheelchair spaces blocking the aisles so people can’t move down the bus or get on and off. The other day there was one man with a pushchair who wouldn’t move over to let a wheelchair user get on. It was so frustrating to watch. I’ve seen very elderly people trying to cling on when the bus is moving because they can’t get past to get a seat.

Toddler should go on your lap or in pushchair.

I've travelled loads with kids on various public transport. Kids on lap if no alternative. I always offer the seat to nearby adult

Does your 2 year old always get what she's wants?

And you shouldn't have sat her in a priority seat. Either put her in the buggy or you sit with her on lap. Both better options

We need to go back to the days where there was a rack on the bus and train to put folded buggys in. All buggys folded down to get on to the bus or train. All toddlers/ small children sat on laps. If some parents think it's ok to have a unfolded empty pushchair and take up a seat unfortunately this is the only possibility now. They where allowed unfolded pushchairs to Keep their kids in but they are now abusing the privilege.

I find this view literally bonkers. There are a lot of things children don’t pay for because they’re children, not because they are any less in need. Just because the 80s and 90s were uncivilised places doesn’t mean we should continue to make stupid judgements. We didn’t have decent car seats back then either. Should we just go back to letting babies roll around in bassinets on the back seat?

Of course no one should be kicking a two year old out of a chair, anyone who thinks differently is either being deliberately cruel or unnecessarily provoking.

On a packed tube, I would have put my child on my lap to take up less space overall but if there was plenty of standing, I can’t see how you did anything wrong.

Surely older people won't stand for a young child? I'd much rather a toddler took a tumble than an elderly person who might be a bit unsteady already and be at risk of breaking a bone if they fall.

’The 80s and 90s were uncivilised’

Bloody hell. The era a lot of posters are referring to was actually then 70s and 80s. Uncivilised in some ways perhaps but I will take that over old people being expected to make way for children etc. Apparently the world revolves around them.

Oh and how you can call any other generation uncivilised when young people are now routinely stabbing each other to death would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

I had children in the 90s. We had decent car seats required by law. They weren't rolling round the back seats.

The world revolves around them and it shows in the attitudes of a good number of them.

I've never met a single 2yo that sits still in a seat. Or on a parent's lap for that matter. They just climb all over them. They are full of energy and do not need seats.
Where as "healthy adults" as you call them might 1) not be healthy because invisible disabilities exist so not sure how you know that, especially while they are sitting down and 2) may have been at work all day or night and be exhausted. I have stood up on public transport many times, in my early 20s with aching feet and back after working a 12hr night shift in a care home. To everyone else I may have looked like the last person who needed a seat but in reality I was desperate for one, and for my bed!
You should have popped DD back in the pushchair before boarding the train. It would have taken a second to sit her there. Instead you took up space with the pushchair and then also wanted a seat.
YABU.

The man had a problem with his leg. The 2 year old was sat in a disabled seat. He asked to use the seat due to his leg. The child should have been removed and placed in her pushchair. OP did everything wrong

Why did you walk several metres away from your husband though? With what purpose in mind? Why did you not stay together and put her in the pushchair?
What was the purpose of walking away from the pushchair?

We were rattling around in the 70s once we were old enough to walk. We also rode in the footwell, on people’s laps etc. Adults smoked around us. Maybe not all great but we were expected to fit in with what the adults did and basically not cause inconvenience to them if possible.

Safety issues aside, I’m not seeing that as a bad thing. We went out all day unsupervised and didn’t expect to be entertained by our parents or extra curricular activities.

I work with a lad who is young but has GenX parents and it shows in his attitude and manners.