AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

"when a healthy adult is sitting right next to them"

I think YNBU and the guy was a jerk, but you need to consider hidden disabilities.

The man was being an ass. If someone needed a seat they can request a priority seat as we’ve all had to do a million times when pregnant. There was no reason to point at your daughter and claim her seat. Also if you want to turf someone out of their seat because of your perceived greater need then it’s appropriate to be polite and ask which he was not.

Exactly.
Mind you us Gen X got the worst of everything. It probably explains why we have no tolerance for other people’s shit now 😂

Was your daughter maybe moving round on the chair and trying to get up and down on it? Maybe instead of thinking she was sitting on it the man thought that she was just playing with/climbing on the empty chair while no one was using it? He was then possibly checking whether you were using it or whether it was free? In that case it might make sense to ask about that chair rather than the others if he needed a seat?

Most parents would probably sit with the child on their lap, so this may have contributed to his perception of the chair use.

Maybe not, but might explain it? Not saying he was right, but just trying to think of different perspective.

This always used to surprise me when I lived in the UK. In Southern Europe, where I’m from, adults are expected to give up their seats for young children; it’s common knowledge that they are more vulnerable to falling - or, even worse, being fallen on - if the vehicle breaks suddenly. You notice the difference immediately: tourists from Northern Europe will remain seated or even demand a seat from a child, whereas locals will stand for any child up to age 6 or 7.

I’ve always loved the warm, child-centered community feel of the South. I will always give up my seat for a young child, and I’m teaching my daughter (5) to do the same for those younger than her, or for pregnant, elderly, and disabled passengers. However, I absolutely don't teach her to give up her seat for just any adult - I find that tradition quite obnoxious.

Each to their own I guess, I find the idea of giving up my seat for a toddler when they have an alternative fairly obnoxious, tbh.

Particularly as most of these modern travel systems take up space that could be used for one or even two adults to stand.

So one parent and a child that must have a seat are taking up 3-4 spaces potentially. That’s not about not being ‘child centric’, it’s about taking up way more space than you should when other people need it.

No, it’s not. But toddlers should be in buggies or on a parents lap. 🙄

It really doesn’t ‘go without saying’. Their needs don’t trump the needs of others

Ah now that is true 🤣🤣

I would say the man is a bit strange for commenting if he didn't want the seat for himself or that there was someone older than you standing near by in which case I think it would be polite to offer the seat to an older adult (though aware they too can become offended as being seen as frail).

I do however think if all seats were taken which it sounds like they were you should have sat on the seat and told her to sit on your lap so that you both had a seat.

Your arguement with him about also having a bad leg seems silly, as if this was true then it would be sensible for you to be sitting too.

South Ken tube on a weekend or school holiday is like the Hunger Games, it's everyone for themselves. You stood (sat) your ground and he huffed off, I wouldn't give it another thought.

He had clearly identified someone who he felt needed the seat. So he was actually doing a nice thing as far as he was concerned.

I know you explained why your child was not in the push chair but I can see why he was annoyed. The only ‘right’ thing to do would have been to keep your child in the pushchair, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You lost me at the assumption the adults next to you were perfectly healthy. You have no idea...

My 21 year old looks perfectly healthy to look at, but he's now. Perhaps hold your judgement.

Next time use the pushchair you had with you and sit her in that if you were so worried she'd fall over. Pretty simple.

Well turn you make her, or put her in the pushchair.

I think we are missing the point a bit here. A toddler should be seated for safety. Either in an adult lap or strapped into their buggy. I would rather hear a 2 year old complaining about an adult putting in a boundary than have an adult who needs the seat stand up.

Exactly. Sounds like the toddler was dictating what was happening

Then she stands 🤷‍♀️, you hold on to her tight.

You ABU. Yes, toddlers should give up a seat if adults are standing. Our world thankfully does not and should not revolve around 2 yr olds 🙄

And you don’t know if they are healthy adults. HTH.

Apparently that train revolved around exactly that. No wonder people were annoyed

The guy needed a seat for his leg, you should have given up the seat. I look completely healthy but I carnt stand due to a disability for long periods so I would have asked for the seat as well. It's a disability seat, he had every right to ask. You had a pushchair taking up even more space, use it.

I remember this on our town buses when I was little

"Children under the age of 12 travel free on the understanding that they do not occupy seats to the exclusion of fare paying passengers"

That's how it should be IMO

It should have been your turn when you were a child.

My mum in her 60s gets in a huff about kids having seats because apparently it doesn’t show ‘respect’. Whereas I as a healthy adult give my seat up for young kids happily.

In this scenario i would have probably strapped her back into the pushchair at the start when there weren’t any seats free initially.

If i had a seat and there were adults standing, i would have sat down with her on my knee if i didn’t have a pushchair.

I live just outside of London but this is also why I won’t take my kids while they are still in puschairs. Absolute faff on the tube.

It wasn't crushed, so you could have easily walked her or carried her back to the pushchair and put her in it

But we aren't taking about a healthy adult. The man had a problem with his leg, ergo not a healthy adult.

Well it wasn’t. Like a lot of PPs, (and I imagine like your mum) we were expected to give up seats for older people.

Now we have to put up with having to stand because someone wants to take up half the carriage with an empty ‘travel system’ and seat for their child. Or, even worse, give up our seats.

So yeah, that sucks. Especially as our generation is getting older and working longer than our forebears. So perhaps give your mum a break.

I would have sat with the toddler on my lap - if for no other reason than sometimes the tubes stop suddenly and she would have been safer in my arms.

Also, if you have a sore knee why didn’t you sit?