AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

Then she came on to boast how she had won when actually she was in the wrong. If she had the child in her pushchair it wouldn’t have been an issue. Okay hindsight is 20/20 and everyone makes mistakes but it’s a shame she can’t admit that it was her mistake.

I don't think you can claim she's in the wrong here. There's multiple people on the thread, who probably have had relevant experience of what she's dealing with here, that think she's completely in the right!

OP could have sat on the seat and then sat the toddler on her lap.

Would you really think it was ok that OP and her DD took her 2 separate seats on a busy tube?
Or is it common courtesy to sit a toddler on your lap and therefore only take up 1 seat?

You’re now saying it’s fine for a toddler to stand, as it’s more hassle to get them into a pushchair.

So it’s either dangerous for them to stand and therefore you think OP was in the wrong for not strapping her safely in the pushchair.

Or it’s not that dangerous to stand and so DD was fine standing.

But the situation wouldn’t have arisen if the child had been in the pushchair. Like I said, mistakes happen but that was the catalyst. What would have made sense was for the OP to concede she made a mistake and that she will put her child in her pushchair if they are travelling again.

Because she will have been expected to stand for adults as a child. The child had a perfectly good seat which OP should have put her in, but instead she chose to take up at least twice as much space as necessary.

Two seats and the pushchair presumably

What some younger people don't realise is that at one time, letting your child - whatever age or size - occupy a seat while adults were standing was a social faux pas of the same magnitude as queue jumping. I used to dread a train or bus filling up because I knew my parents would make me stand as soon as it did.

I am not saying this was right, just that it was a fact,

As a pp put it so well, a whole generation of us have spent our lives being expected to give up seats for someone or other because the tide has turned between our childhood and adulthood. You can't blame us for being a bit peeved.

Why would you dread standing as a young fit human

I wasn't particularly fit - I have hypermobility which wasn't diagnosed until adulthood - so it was, still is, painful to stand still for any length of time. As I child I assumed the aches and pains were normal as I didn't know anything different.

No, yanbu.

However this is Mumsnet and people think kids should bow down to the elderly and give them automatic respect at the expense of themselves.

I wouldn’t move my child, my 3 and 4 year old are both disabled themselves although you wouldn’t be able to tell looking at them, but even if they weren’t, I wouldn’t move them.

Im also disabled but because I look young (I’m 40) I get glared at when I sit in the ACCESSIBLE (Note: Not elderly seating. It’s for Elderly, Pregnant, Disabled and those less able to stand) seating.
I just let them tut away and carry on with their little entitled attitudes and stay firmly put.

I used to let myself get walked all over and intimidated when I was a first time new mum, now years of travelling by bus with a pram and disabled children, I’ve hardened up to it and no longer care what people think.

I agree completely. The little ones should definitely sit for their and your safety.

Actually this is Mumsnet where adults, regardless of health, must bow down to children.

And you do realise that being less able to stand includes some elderly people?

Im glad you don’t care what people think because presumably that means that you are happy for them to speak up? (Or are you one of those ‘they wouldn’t dare or they will be sorry’ people)?

And there was a pushchair for that purpose which the OP CHOSE not to deploy

I do think younger people should get up for older people. Bit off piste I know. But the younger people will, in turn, one day be the older people standing. While younger healthy people are sitting. And bear in mind;
A sharp turn on a bus for example can lead to a fall, which can lead to a broken hip for an older person. Which can change their life forever.
It is just nice and decent to offer your seat when you are young to someone whose mobility for whatever reason is less sturdy than your own.
I was expected to as a child. I did so happily.

Who said holding onto the buggy. She should be sat in it

Wrestling a toddler may be problematic but as the parent it’s what she should have done. The fact she would rather argue with someone than risk dealing with her child is very telling

Well the person I quoted said next to the buggy? And as I've pointed out, that area is the busiest area on the tube when passengers are standing so sat in buggy or stood, she'd be better between the seats where there is more room.

But your daughter was in an accessible seat.

They are for the elderly, the disabled, the pregnant and those with babe in arms.

You said your toddler could stand so you should be prepared to move should someone in needs ask for the seat. However, the woman should have asked for a seat.

Why did she move away from the buggy? There was no need, she should have sat the child in the buggy then kept hold of the buggy. That's the safest option. Allowing a 2 year old on one of the fold down seats alone is a risk, if the train jolted she would be thrown from the seat.

@Tshirtking , I mean it's entirely possible that everyone in disagreement with me has much more compliant 2 year olds than I do, but I could not get onto a tube train that had arrived as I arrived at the platform and get my toddler wriggling fighting toddler strapped in without getting in the way of everyone else getting on. I might get accused of being "entitled".

But, everyone else who can just must be better at it than me, I suppose.

😂😂

busy tube is so dangerous for little kids to stand
It's best not to travel in rush hour with little kids.

I mean it's entirely possible that everyone in disagreement with me has much more compliant 2 year olds than I do, but I could not get onto a tube train that had arrived as I arrived at the platform and get my toddler wriggling fighting toddler strapped in without getting in the way of everyone else getting on. I might get accused of being "entitled".
The answer to this is simple. Child in buggy the whole time- on the platform, and on the tube.

I've had several 2 year olds. They often didn't want to be strapped in but I strapped them in regardless. It's called parenting. If you let them get away with this at 2 heaven help you when you have teens. Parenting and discipline begins at 2.

I mean, I wouldn't leave my kid in a buggy carrying it precariously down stairs at a tube station. I'd hope you wouldn't.

Although it sounds like your answer to this is that they just shouldn't be out at all. At museums and galleries with exhibitions for children and families.

I mean, I wouldn't leave my kid in a buggy carrying it precariously down stairs at a tube station. I'd hope you wouldn't.
Although it sounds like your answer to this is that they just shouldn't be out at all. At museums and galleries with exhibitions for children and families.
Don't know where you got that from? I said they don't need to travel at rush hour.
When my own dcs were that age I did use the tube. People in London will always help on stairs (if there are no lifts available) and if you really have to take them out, which I never had to, then strap them back in and wait for the next tube if necessary. It would be bonkers anyway to have a 2 year old loose on a tube platform.