Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

I’ve never heard anyone complain about young boys being in the toilets with their mothers.

Women don’t need to justify why they expect women’s spaces to be for women.

This I definitely don’t agree with. I’m surprised your partner actually agrees to do that.

Young boy with mum is fine. Older boy/adult man is not unless the disabled facility is inaccessible in which case the man should make very clear as he enters, what he is doing and why and preferably give the women currently in there the opportunity to finish before he goes in.

Yes and there was an accessible toilet which they should have waited for.

no one has the right to immediate access to a toilet. There are often queues.

@TaztoyI’m very sorry about your rape.

i have not been raped but I have experienced domestic abuse and I also for a long time had a severe fear of men in small rooms.

in general there are situations where men can be in the ladies toilets - the most common is that a male is cleaning them. I know that in those situations there is usually a notice put up or one of those cone things to let people know.

on a personal level I do think there aren’t enough disabled toilets around the place - I use a wheelchair and often have to check on websites in advance to see where is possible.

can I ask what you would do if there was a male cleaner in the ladies?

Exactly.

'Other than sexual assault survivors...' - do you have any idea how many women have been in that situation? It feels incredibly dismissive. I escaped a planned and premeditated sexual assault in a women's bathroom. No woman has to put up with any man in women's loos for any reason whatsoever.

if there is a sign on the door for eg I usually shout in and ask if there is a man in there.

but tbh I try not to go to the loo when I’m out.

They shouldn’t unless the disabled is out of action or being used or something. I’d try to be understanding though and maybe very gently show him where the disabled loo is.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim see page 1 literally a comment about boys in the toilets too.

But this doesn’t help me understand, I don’t see it as a problem and would like to understand more why some people do.

No. Never.

He couldn't help her in the ladies, she'd gone in on her own without her zimmer. She could have done that without him and he could have stood outside the outer door.

I don't understand at all why he was in there and I don't think he should have been.

I’m sorry if that’s how if came across it wasn’t my intention. But I would state you fall into one of the only reasons I do understand.

Are you suggesting he was masquerading with the zimmer frame? If you’re not then what is the issue?

He shouldn't have been in there is the issue.

I think you’re overthinking it. Of course it’s fine if she needs help!

The minute a man of any denomination enters a single sex space, it's no longer single sex. It's as simple as that. And since you didn't see the man's disabled wife OP, you have no idea whether she really existed or not or whether he was simply there for perving purposes. What was wrong with the disabled loo?

This is so bad

They are supposed to be single sex spaces.

Not “single sex spaces unless it’s inconvenient”.

I have an acute understanding of the difficulties involved. I have a 16 yr old DS with disabilities - he is still in nappies/pullups. He can’t go into men’s changing rooms/toilets on his own and I’m his female carer.

Lots of places only have one disabled cubicle - and some places put the accessible cubicle in the single sex areas!

It’s difficult. You do have to prepare in advance as much as possible. There aren’t adequate facilities.

I’m also the carer for DM who has cerebral palsy and dementia.

I am very familiar with the difficulties of disabled toilets and also their abuse by people who don’t need to use them.

In this scenario, at the very least, her DH should have waited outside. That’s assuming she was desperate and it wasn’t just that she couldn’t be arsed to queue - which is just as likely as her being unable to wait.

None of us get to consent on behalf of other women. We don’t know which men are physical threats but it’s more than just that. Some women are so traumatised that the chance of meeting a man in an enclosed “safe” space makes it unusable. Some women cannot share spaces with men for religious reasons. Some men might need to enter the women’s because they’re a carer but might still enjoy ogling.

No matter how ok you are with it, none of us get to decide the circumstances in which men can gain access to our single sex spaces. It’s not fair on other women who need to trust that the space is safe for many, many different reasons.

I can’t believe we’re still having to have this discussion tbh.

He didn't need to be there. She left the zimmer outside the cubicle, she could have done that without him there.

How do you know that she went in on her own? Where does the OP state that fact? The whole point of her husband being there, for all we know, is that she may require help to sit on the seat, and then help to get up, when she was finished.

The most likely scenario is that it was in use. There are nowhere near enough disabled toilets.

Because he was hanging about by the sinks. Do keep up.

I’ve taken my husband in the ladies toilets with me a number of times. He’s blind and if there is no other loo (or quite often the disabled loos are in the normal loos) I have to. We always explain and apologise, he is more embarrassed than me about it (especially if I need to go to, so I guide him to his stall then go to mine, he then might finish first and end up standing awkwardly, especially as he has no idea where the sinks are!) so this gentleman was probably embarrassed too. We only do it when there is no other choice, so I imagine the disabled loo was busy.

I think the people here suggesting that men should bring their daughters to the ladies are being absolutely ridiculous. They should bring their daughters to the men’s and just supervise them very closely . An adult woman who is disabled needing help is a different story .