Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

Perhaps she couldn’t wait. People do have issues whereby when they need to go, they need to go. I only hope you’re never in that situation. My mother was and it wasn’t nice.

Yes I am.

Nobody is in danger of being raped by a man who is doing nothing whatsoever to endanger women. He was literally stood waiting by the sinks to help his wife get off the toilet. Not a monster.

I've been very violently gang raped. I don't see all men as being a threat. I don't project my experiences onto other innocent people. It really isn't ok.

Wouldn’t have cared at all. Man said sorry and explained. No harm done.

I can’t describe my rape. Or the effect on me. It’ll be deleted. Why should I have to go through that when there is an accessible toilet that the man and his wife could have used.

I am sorry you experienced that.

however, I can’t help my trauma and men shouldn’t be in women’s toilets.

The OP has no idea if it was occupied though, does she? That makes all the difference here, imo.

I will always make sure my partner takes my daughter in the ladies. This sounds terrible but it just sounds safer and more pleasant for her

No, it doesn't.

It does to me.

Please don’t. There are women like me who can’t cope with a man in an enclosed space. He should take her to the men’s until she of age to go to the toilet by herself. Thank you.

That’s fine if your partner is female. Otherwise he should not be in the ladies. I don’t care if it’s “nicer” for your daughter - she isn’t going to come to harm in the men’s with her father. He can just tell her to close her eyes.

I’m very sorry you’ve experienced this.
I agree that all women have the right to expect women’s toilets and changing rooms to be safe women only spaces .
I think this sort of situation should be an exception and the man and women involved should explain and hopefully get permission from the women using the space.

Yep. Exactly.

That sounds grand but what if I enter the space while they’re already there?

or im in a cubicle and they come In and he asks and I go into extreme panic?

that solution doesn’t help me. I’ve described what happened before when a man was waiting for the disabled. If I describe it again it will be deleted. As it’s too upsetting for others to read.

It isn't the law. It isn't legally required to have toilets segregated by sex. But even where there are segregated toilets it isn't illegal for someone of the opposite sex to enter them. The business owner can ask them to leave but they don't have to insist on it. And I can't envisage any circumstances in which they'd do anything which actually penalises a disabled person.

And fuck everyone else…

I have a disbaled relative. You plan ahead for these situations. As a pp said if there's continence issues then they both need to be better organised.

Men should not be in women's facilities. There was an accessible toilet available. If not immediately free then they should have waited.

As we're engaging in whatabouterry involving people with protected characteristics.

What if a religious woman enters the toilet, desperate to use the loos sees a man (where they should not be) and then has to leave and then has an accident?

Is her discomfort greater or less than the woman in this situation?

Is there some sort of protected characteristics top trumps???

It is a single sex toilets for females, he shouldn’t be in there, regardless of reason. If she needs assistance, they need to use the disabled toilet

Other than sexual assault survivors which I can understand. For other women what’s your reason for not wanting a male carer or young boy in the toilets with their mum. If you can’t see into the cubicles is it the idea of men hearing you use the toilet or just a fear of a men acting inappropriately? Do you fear men acting inappropriately in public in general? Do you refuse to use multi sex bathrooms out of principal?

Genuinely want to understand difference in thinking.

Yes there are and it generally trumps others if it’s attached to a penis.

I would have cared.
I would have waited outside until they came out.
If he was in the wash area when I came out of the cubicles I would have exited without washing my hands and used sanitiser once out.

This is a case of conflicting vulnerabilities and rights .
You have a right to a safe single sex space
A disabled woman has a right to an accessible toilets that her carer can enter with her.

I'd definitely prefer not to have men in the ladies loos, but I can imagine an emergency where it might be unavoidable, in the case of disability.

I don't think I ever had to go into the gents with my dad, but I can imagine it might have come up - he had severe dementia, so did need a lot of support at the end. If there was no man with us and no disabled loos (or they were occupied) , it could have been necessary, but it would have been far from my first choice. (And it's even more important men try to avoid this, due to the patriarchal power imbalance).

If I had to do it I would have shouted first to warn guys in there, and if an to entered afterwards, explain that if they could wait, we would be as quick as we could.

I think if a man was in the ladies helping a disabled wife, and I didn't feel comfortable about it, I would wait outside until they left (unless it was an emergency wee for me myself, obviously!).

I’m not cool but I have no issue with this man in this circumstance. I think you’d have to be a bit lacking in sympathy to really be annoyed by this bloke.