Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

I don't understand what you are saying? I wouldn't mind this but I have no idea what I need to reframe.

I would assume the disabled toilet was occupied when they first went in. It must be really hard in that situation so I really wouldn’t be worried. Single sex spaces are important but so is inclusivity for disabled people.

The OP literally said the disabled toilet was available.

How do you know the disabled toilet was available hen the lady needed to go?

He absolutely should not have been in there. There was an accessible toilet, they wait like everyone else has to.

That's not OK unless the accessible toilets were broken or closed for some reason. No reason for the man to hang the basins anyway. He could have gone in the cubicle if his wife was willing, or wait in the corridor for a few minutes then come back and help her finish.

No - I don’t think men have any right to women’s spaces. But I think a man who is caring for a disabled partner falls into a different category. They are not trying to access women’s space. They are there as a carer ( like a male nurse?)
I can’t see how this would be a slippery slope to give predatory men access

So by your reasoning it’s ok for a woman to be in a man’s toilet. Do you not think she’d feel uncomfortable seeing men standing peeing at urinals or men may feel uncomfortable 🤷🏼‍♀️. The man was doing no harm.

Physically disabled
Hidden disabilities such as any conditions requiring the urgent need to go
etc

Not just because the ladies has a queue and it'll 'only take a few minutes'.

How do you know whether tbe disabled was available when the lady needed it?OP only checked on her way out.

It wouldn't bother me. Doesn't seem predatory behaviour in any way?! Just caring for his wife

I don’t want to see men in women’s toilets either. But if it was an emergency I would definitely turn a blind eye to this situation.

There have been plenty of times that it would have been more convenient for me to use the disabled toilets, but I haven’t, because I’m not disabled.

He shouldn’t be in the ladies’ toilets.

She also said it's possible it wasn't available when the man and his wife got there.

Nothing to do with being cool. More having some empathy and understanding of the disabled person's situation. It's not like OP had to do her business in front of him. She was in a cubicle.

In this scenario I would think ‘bless him’.

There were cubicles weren't there? Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

So its okay for the poor lady who is disabled to not be able to use the toilet? I would imagine the disabled was in use when she first needed and she had no other choice.

Yes I do. I already did it. Because its true. There aren't any sensible reasons for it. If a disabled woman can be expected to piss and/or shit herself because the accessible toilet is occupied then why shouldn't everyone else be held to that same standard? If a disabled woman can just wait a few minutes then why can't everyone else?

Expecting a disabled woman to use the men's toilets, and thus making the womens toilets unavailable to her, is not a reasonable adjustment to meet her needs. If she chooses to then fine. But I'd love to see the day a business tells a disabled woman that they have to use the men's toilets if their carer is male. And the people crying about a man doing absolutely nothing on this post would likely be the first ones to rant about a woman being told she had to use the men's toilets.

Its absolute lunacy.

No. The man should not be in the women's toilet.

If his wife needed assistance (and it doesn't sound like she did as she was in the toilet on her own) then it should have been the disabled toilet.

If she was desperate she does what everyone else does - she waits, like we all do - even small children.

If she has continence problems, she or her carer should be addressing this.

None of this requires a man to be in a woman's toilet.

I don't care that it doesn't bother you. It bothers other women and they deserve privacy and dignity - which a man in their toilet prevents.

Women's single sex facilities are just that - for women only. It's not a matter of individual choice - it's the law.

The op checked at the point the lady was already in the normal toilet so that’s not confirmation at all!

i used the men’s in M&S once as there was a massive queue for the ladies and I was heavily pregnant with twins. It was that or wet myself. I have zero regrets.

There was an accessible toilet available. We don't know if it was free when he entered the ladies facilities but they should have waited outside.

We have a disabled relative and you plan ahead for these situations you don't just go barging into women's areas.

Im disabled by virtue of my trauma.

what about some empathy and understanding for me and people like me?

So it’s fine for women to feel uncomfortable but not for men to feel uncomfortable?
Men using a urinal shouldn’t be showing anything.
He should have waited outside, given it 5 minutes then shouted was it okay for him to enter. But she should have used the disabled toilets.

This.