Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

And this is exactly what happened with the strangers I posted about upthread. I found myself helping a complete stranger pull her pants down and lowered her onto the loo. I stepped out of the cubicle, pulled it as closed as I could and waited with my back turned. I then helped her husband get her upright so he could pull her pants up and get her wheelchair close enough for her to shuffle into it.
To then create a narrative that this man who was desperately trying to support his wife was a pervert abusing women's loos is horrific to me.

I accept that there are perverts out there. I also think perspective and rationality is needed.

😘

As per usual, the term ‘cool girl’ is being used to dismiss the fact that not everyone has the same opinion as you.

Hang on.

we don’t know there is a disabled lady

we don’t know the man is her carer.

all we know is there’s a man in a toilet standing near to a zimmer frame. Anything else is absolutely conjecture

Changing facilities should be totally separate.

As for not wanting him to take your child swimming, that’s fine. Better than having him go into the women’s facility

What, like this disabled woman? Who was in the toilet allocated to her sex?

But how would he know when she needed him again? Most toilets have two doors, so if he was outside he wouldn't hear her.

It’s disgusting how ignorant and selfish so many pp’s are. I’m a survivor but I’m capable of not becoming absolutely paranoid about a man clearly there to help his wife.

Except the underage girls being forced to use the men’s toilets, walking past men with their naked dicks in their hands because they’re too young to go into the women’s toilets on their own and their mother is either dead or not present so their dad is with them. Those girls don’t matter. Those girls deserve to be made to feel vulnerable and scared if one of those strangers at the urinals leers or strokes his dick at them.

They don’t matter.

I mean the OP said there was someone in the cubicle who was taking quite a while and there was a man there with a zimmer frame, pretty elaborate ruse if it was just so he could spy on people (through closed cubicle doors)

You think men taking their daughter into the toilets are going to start what sexually assaulting people?

mens pants are at a minimum round the thighs otherwise they would wet them potentially so yes there are exposed and I don’t think many people want their daughters exposed to that. If mens toilets were like women’s then different story

most fathers I know take their daughter into the disabled toilet if needs be!

How do you determine which is which?

which way would have stopped my 11yr old sister being raped in the toilet?

I'm assuming she can sit while the other lady finishes and he can pop his head back in and check when she's done. Surely sitting an extra couple of minutes is a fair exchange for having her husband in the ladies?

That's fantastic for you hooray 👏 however most women do care because we don't want to be sexually assaulted etc by men and we don't want our children to be either that's why we will fight tooth and nail to keep ourselves and other women safe(r). It's dangerous being a woman and child and most attackers are men. So why let them into safe spaces where we are undressed in a usually private area.

Oh great idea. It wouldn’t occur to most non disabled people to use the accessible toilet. You can twist it as much as you like

How do you "deliver a wife" ffs?

Just shove her through the door of the toilets and hope for the best?

A man helping a disabled woman who needs assistance to safely use the toilet isn't at all comparible to you not reading a sign properly.

Yeah I think we’ve all had the experience where some trendy wine bar has decided to label the toilets with some super sophisticated picture and you look at it for ages trying to work out which one is which until someone comes out of one of them.

Most men don’t assault women. However it’s not unreasonable to expect only women in the female toilets. You don’t get to risk assess for others.

I am sorry that happened. Was the perpetrator accompanied by a woman using a wheelchair or a zimmer frame?

Wouldn't bother me. I have come across this where I saw an elderly man helping his presumed wife onto the toilet. They were both visible and he was just facing into the cubicle focused on helping her. I felt a bit sad at the situation and also thought it was very sweet. We're all going to get old and might need the same some day. I assume there was no disabled option, as why else would you choose a more difficult cubicle? The vibe of the whole thing wasn't at all off, it seemed a natural caring situation. They were clearly both frail.

What do you mean men’s pants are around their thighs?

After reading this thread I no longer give a fuck about who uses women's toilets. I don't want to be aligned with the ableism and insane opinions on this thread.

I'm with you @InconsequentialFerret . Any concerns that I had before about men in women's toilets have evaporated while I've been reading this thread.

Such cruelty, such ableism, such lack of empathy. Just obsession and paranoia.
I want no part of it.

@Flowersdie I’m really sorry your sister went through that, I can’t imagine how horrific it was and what an impact it had and no doubt still has on you all. But ultimately that man would not have been put off my any law enforcing toilets as strictly single sex only, he clearly didn’t care about law / rules in any sense. This does not automatically mean every man in a women’s toilet is going to go on and rape someone. If you genuinely feel unsafe in any situation you should walk away, so if you walk in the toilets and there is an elderly man there helping his disabled wife and you don’t feel comfortable, it is your personal choice to leave. Disabled women have rights too.

I’m 99% sure there was someone in the other cubicle.

I think they mean men pull down their pants to have a piss. Some of them just take their dicks out but it depends on the trouser/pants situ. Some pull them quite far down.