Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

But women can put themselves at risk by going into a men’s toilets to help their disabled husband? Or to be helped to use the toilet by their husband due to their own disability? Are those women not then even more at risk due to the amount of men in there??

FFS, I've posted more times than I can count, about how long it takes for a disabled person to use the toilet. She might have to wait for ten minutes. Presumably she couldn't

So where is the line drawn? One man can come in because he needs a shit, another because he has his daughter with him, another because his wife is disabled, another because he feels like it…

Well, maybe the OP could just wait for the man to have finished helping his wife and use the toilet after.

I'm not being ridiculous. If someone is about to lose control of their bowels then they should go to whichever toilet is closest and available.

I say again, I think you'd have to be a real psychopath to prefer someone shitting themselves to them being in the wrong sex loo.

Apparently all men are welcome !

I could have, but that would have put pressure on them. She was still in the stall when I left so she was taking a while and I’m not sure how long she had been in there.

I’m with you on this one. I could understand him opening the main toilet door for her if there wasn’t another woman coming in and out to do it for it as they aren’t normally
on a swing hinge but he didn’t need to follow her in and then stay in the toilets outside the cubicles.

Exactly.

The issue is when the one disabled toilet is in use. It also sometimes is a baby changing facility as well.

Or out of order.

Asking a stranger to help pull her pants down is unthinkable.

This thread has really upset me. The lack of humanity against this poor woman (who some have suggested doesn't even exist!) has really shocked me.

🙄

Fgs, he was with his disabled wife.

All women matter. That's why men shouldn't be in the women's toilets or spaces. Because women and girls have the right not to be sexually assaulted, raped, filmed, photographed , upskirted or made to feel vulnerable by men in women's spaces.

Really frustrating when you really need to use the toilet and someone else is in there and you have no other choice isn’t it… put yourself in the shoes of the disabled woman. Yes people with disabilities can take longer. That’s why sometimes they have to use the non accessible toilets because they can’t wait for the disabled one to become free. Imagine if people on this thread cared as much about disabled people’s rights as they do women’s.

Unfortunately in that case it’s majority rules. A woman isn’t automatically at risk - most of the men are using the toilet and then leaving. However a man in the ladies instantly becomes an issue because they are in the wrong sex toilet, there is rarely an innocent reason and that is an issue for many women (particularly those who have been assaulted)

Lol

i use a wheelchair mostly but do sometimes use a walker.

so, to go through typing it out again:

imagine I am going into the ladies with my walker.

i go into a cubicle. There’s the toilet, then my frame, then me.

there isn’t space to turn round properly so I need to shuffle round as if I am turning on the spot. Realistically at that point I need someone else holding me and or the frame to make sure I don’t fall.

when I’ve shuffled round enough (maybe 45 degrees) there’s enough space for me to sit down partially on the loo.

from there the frame can be shuffled round and then the carer can shuffle me sideways so I’m properly on the loo.

if the frame is in the loo cubicle the door can’t shut.
so either:

the carer takes the frame out and holds the door shut (I can’t reach the lock in most cubicles)
OR
I do my shit with the door open.

I have done both but honestly I prefer having the door shut.

once I am finished and I wipe myself either:

if the door was open I can with help from my carer stand up and use the frame to go straight out

or if I didn’t want to shit in front of everyone me and my carer reverse the operation we did to get in.

it is similar to doing a five point turn in a car only a lot worse.

if it’s just me and my frame I physically cannot move to sit on the toilet in a normal sized cubicle.

I genuinely don’t know how else to help you understand this. Some people physically cannot use the cubicles in a normal toilet due to their disabilities, that’s why they need a disabled toilet.

If you want to be legal about it, there is no line. Anyone can go into any loo and they're not breaking any laws.

If you want to be more practical about it, then I'd say anyone who has a genuine need - urgency, opposite sex carers etc - to go into the opposite sex loo.

That isn't always possible and sometimes it can be in use for a while.

If we use one, it can take about 15-20 minutes. Everything takes much longer due to my son's disability.

Yeah, fuck the traumatised women apparently.

Nobody wins here and the situation sucks but let’s not normalise men in women’s spaces.

How do you know it was available at the time it was needed?

Wouldn’t bother me, but I’m also someone who doesn’t have an issue with education settings, etc bringing in unisex toilets. Other settings like the O2 Arena in London, for example, have unisex disabled toilets which are set out like normal toilets but just multiple disabled-sized cubicles. I know when I first used unisex toilets it was weird watching males and females going in and out, but I think it’s largely because it’s not the social norm that we’ve been brought up with.

I'm just going to cut and paste my slightly earlier post, because people just aren't getting it

She would not be able to transfer from a Zimmer to the toilet without help.
Think about it. She goes into a toilet forwards. The Zimmer is in the way. But she needs the Zimmer for stability in order to turn around, take her pants down, and sit down. And the same to get up afterwards.

I've been in exactly the same position as the carer, and my relative could not have done it alone. Asking a stranger to help pull her pants down is unthinkable.

The Zimmer has to be there for her to transfer. The carer has to remove it to shut the door. Then the other way round when she's done.

a woman isn’t automatically at risk

Exactly - just because there is a man helping his disabled elderly wife in the ladies toilets, doesn’t mean you as a woman are automatically at risk.

Don’t they have to be floor to ceiling though?

The law states that there should be single sex toilets

degrading and humiliating to be forced ti share those spaces

Do you think it might traumatise a disabled person to have an accident when it was perfectly avoidable by her husband taking her into the Ladies?

Frankly, I wouldn't be in the least traumatised in these circumstances. If someone feels uncomfortable because of their personal circumstances, perhaps they could wait till the disabled woman and her carer have left?