Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

Yes, you do.

It's still not illegal to use the opposite sex one.

If he can’t go unassisted then accessible is the only way

but he probably can

So do you think men should accompany their daughters into the women’s loos then? As your other post seem to be against men in the ladies.

I agree. This has just made me feel quite nauseous knowing some people wash their dirty knickers in public sinks.

As for dealing with a cut, the last place I'd think to go is a public loo! Boots would seem a more sensible option where I could buy various types of STERILE wound cleaners and dressings.

What the hell is the matter with so many of you? Where's your humanity?

Couldn't agree more. Seems more important to screech no men no men than it is to accept this poor woman had a carer, the disabled loo was most probably occupied and she desperately needed the toilet. But oh no, she should have thought of that and gone out accompanied by a woman. Or worn incontinence pads.

I doubt any of you even think about the fact that one disabled toilet as provision is totally inadequate, you're far too obsessed with not having an elderly male carer helping his mobility impaired wife in a difficult situation.

The ladies toilet isn’t the catch all space for men and boys with issues

Yep…still opinion and not the law though. You keep banging on about the law and then just present your opinion. Which frankly, is just a that

How do you know he wasn't being pervy? This is the problem. We don't know who the pervs are or aren't. They dont come with labels. So for women's and girls safety we need female only spaces.

The law doesn’t actually specify who can go into which toilet.

any such law would be an absolute nightmare to write which is why it doesn’t exist.

it’s a social convention governed by etiquette.

in a care home there may well be many toilets and carers of both sexes will be there.

in an early years setting there will be toilets and they are not normally split into girls and boys and only male carers can go into the boys and only female carers can go into the girls.

quite apart from anything else many early years settings are staffed completely by females and so if you stuck to the no females in male toilets rule nobody would help the two year old male toddler with toileting.

what there are laws about are laws about trespass and disturbing the peace/harassment.

so the owner of a building (or the staff working there) can ask an adult female to leave the men’s toilet or vice versa and expect to be obeyed.

if a man was taking a disabled woman to the toilet in the ladies (for example because there were no disabled loos) it is vanishingly unlikely any police force would consider taking forward a prosecution for harassment/distress and extremely unlikely a private prosecution would succeed.

in practice if a man for whatever reason does wish to go into the ladies many will either get a female member of staff, ask for help from a female nearby or only in extremis will they enter, and most will shout in to give warning first if they do feel they need to enter.

Just another fucking perverted man riding on the ‘be kind to the menz’ coat tails to hang about in the ladies’ toilets. You’ve called him a carer - what’s the evidence there? Why didn’t they use the disabled toilets? Was his ‘wife’ even there?

Be kind. Don’t upset the men

Is this true or untrue? Legally...

Why do you think he 'probably can'?

My son definitely can't. Accessible is the first option but if it isn't available, ladies it is.

If a woman was physically attacking another woman in a women’s toilet and a male outside heard it, would it be ok for them to enter to help or if they heard a woman calling out for help?

For all the people saying use the accessible toilet, it’s not always that simple. It is often taken, and the people in there may take a while due to various needs. Don’t forget a lot of disabled loos have bay change in as well, many a time I’ve been waiting with my disabled husband behind a queue of mums waiting to change their babies (no shade, I’ve used them myself when kids were little!). It is easier and quicker sometimes to use the other toilets, there is nothing to say you HAVE to only use the disabled toilet just because you are disabled.

What threat do you think this man posed OP? And if you genuinely thought he posed a threat, would you not leave a report him?

Well, this is just wrong

I read a lot of replies and not going to say who is right or wrong.

I would dislike the scenario especially if I had my 4 year old girl with me.

I don’t want a strange man I don’t know, to justify his existence standing in the ladies toilets, looking towards me or my daughter, talking at us before we use the facilities. I would help any lady if she needed help moving around the toilets because her male partner is outside. I’d be more than happy to help and maintain the toilets sans adult men.

I’m confused..: you want female only spaces but you think fathers should go into the ladies loos with their daughters?

Toilets are for the use of the biological sex of
the designation.

not whoever thinks they’re special

The zimmer frame.

Or do you think that was just another accessory for his perversion?

🙄

I've never seen anyone wash their mooncup in a sink and honestly I would find it way more disturbing than a man helping his disabled wife (but I wouldn't say anything either way).

I don't know why using the vending machine needs to be done in private though. We don't go to a private part of the supermarket to buy boxes of tampons...

This whole thread shows the mentality of not upsetting men

I'm.interested in why you think he probably can go alone? Can you explain exactly what you mean by that?

It is true. There is no law which criminalises an individual for using the wrong sex loo.

The EA and the SC ruling last year put a responsibility on organisations to ensure that, if they offer single sex spaces, they cannot blur the lines and encourage men into women's loos or vice versa. They cannot put up posters saying "use whatever you feel like" and claim they offer single sex loos online but in reality have everything marked unisex.

If an organisation does this, they are in breach of the EA.

If an individual goes into the wrong loo, they do not commit a crime according to any legislation we currently have.

People get very confused by the SC ruling and assume it means it's completely illegal for a man to be in the ladies. It simply doesn't work like that.

It is a confusion between equalities law which applies to organisations and criminal law which applies to individuals (and organisations).

Unless a disabled person needs the help of a different sexed carer

No he shouldn’t have been in there, that’s what the disabled toilets are for.

And men have phones with cameras that they can film under or over the stalls. They can stand and be intimidating. We don't know who's a threat or who isn't. That's why for safety men shouldn't be in women's toilets or spaces.