Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

Fuck me, read the poster’s previous comments

Exposed to a man standing waiting to help his disabled wife?

Yes it is.
He has no right to be there.
My daughter has the right to go to the toilet without a man being in there.

This should not be normalised. She should not have to grow up thinking she must accept this.

It wouldn't faze me at all.

Been to places, can't remember where, there is a disabled loo in both the men's and ladies'. The doors to enter the loos and then the gender were all wide and plenty of space to move around.

My DF took DM to the ladies' when about 6 weeks after having her knees and hip replacements when the disabled loo was occupied.

Sometimes, depending on the disability etc - a toilet trip for some disabled could take many minutes.

Have you read my posts?

Any man standing in there.

Any man.

and in that case, disabled people and their carers will continue to do what they have to do if a disabled toilet is unavailable.

Of course. Only in this case, there was one which was available after a short wait.

Yep.

If I'm in there with my son, it never takes just a minute. 15 minutes is a good day, sometimes it can be more.

It’s not about me being mortified. It’s about me having an extreme panic attack. It has already happened and is why I don’t use the disabled loos if I’m out alone.

How do you know it was a short wait? OP came when they were already there so had no idea if they were in the ladies for 2 minutes or 20 minutes.

I wouldn’t be concerned about this as it’s clear what his intentions are.

Well they wouldn’t have known how long they had to wait and you have no idea whether they waited a long time for the disabled toilet before going to the women’s

Do you know many men who pee with their tackle facing the room? If you walk past a line of urinals, it’s just a load of backs.

What to you is discomfort is distressing for others. Your trauma means you feel walking a girl through the men’s toilets is sexual abuse. I am sorry you went through that. But it really isn’t.

@LoremIpsumCici thanks

on a more sensible level:

there are clearly exceptions to the rule that toilets are single sex.

the most obvious is for babies. It is not the case that male babies have to be taken into the men’s toilet to have their nappy changed.
in most cases there is a baby change facility, sometimes in the disabled loo (so available to any sex but only used by one adult/group at a time)
but on occasions the baby change is actually in the women’s loo.

equally, small children are by custom and practice allowed in the ladies loo, usually with their mother although I have seen fathers do this aswell.

some places will explicitly state this is a notice on the door (usually in a “boys over 7 must use the male toilets” sort of wording).

other exceptions include:
male cleaners (usually a notice on the door)
security/cleaning check (they usually shout first but not always)
actual emergencies - one of my pupils once dislocated his shoulder in the boys loos and the paramedics did go in there to treat him (what else were they going to do, say phone for another ambulance and say you need a male?)

etc.

so it really isn’t the case that males are not allowed in the ladies loo - various subsets of males are allowed in various specific circumstances and with particular announcements.

Bloody hell @LumenLights read Taztoy’s comments before asking her stupid questions

Then all the mums taking their sons to the ladies need to stop!

This

She was still in the cubicle when the OP could see the disabled was free. It came free some time after she went into the cubicle. With the worst case scenario, with only a toilet in that cubicle, she isn't going to have been in there an enormous length of time, especially if her need to get in there was was urgent.

Is there some sort of protected characteristics top trumps???

Actually, I know the answer to this, as I put the question to a friend of mine who is a male transsexual. He said that religious women (we were talking about the Orthodox Jewish women of North London, who can no longer use Hampstead Heath Ladies' Pond) who refuse to accept transwomen in women-only spaces are bigots who need to be dragged into the twentieth century, no better than someone who wants segregation from black people.

HTH

It’s the principle of the matter. I’m sure his intentions were fine but by making toilets single sex, that eliminates any question.

With small children, it’s the sex of the adult. Women take boys into the women’s toilets and men take girls into the men’s toilets.

No it's not ok. Men can't go in women's spaces even for this reason. If this is allowed, then you're going to get all manner of blokes walking in. May as well get rid of womens' spaces altogether if this type of thing is allowed.

I’m not a cool girl in the slightest. My example was a male security guard who came into a ladies toilet at a main railway station in the UK last week to do a security check. The terrorism threat has been raised - personally I’d rather checks were done than be kicking off about a man in the ladies toilets.

what private things are women doing at the sinks??

Are you still friend with him/ her?
Sorry. It’s unclear what the biological sex is of your friend from that post.