Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

Presumably you are going to close the cubicle when you use the toilet so where is the lack of dignity

The law is clear- the sex of person needing to use the toilet determines which toilets you go into. Girl= women’s toilets. Full stop.

The law allows for male cleaners and carers so long as they announce their presence and are discrete and act appropriately.

And vice versa for the men’s loos. The law allows for female carers and cleaners.

BUT THEY ARE.
Male toilet attendants and male carers are allowed to enter women’s toilets.

That’s right, we should just lock them up. Your lack of empathy and nasty attitude is astounding.

At what point do you suggest we lock up all these elderly people? Do we set an age? When they start to go a bit scatty? If they have one bad day/week/month? When their physical health means they need assistance?

Dementia sufferers have good days and bad days. Dehydration and infection makes them worse and the more upset they are the less they are able to cope. Unfortunately my MIL used to try and manage her toilet needs by not drinking, making her worse on certain days.

I sincerely hope that you and your loved ones never develop this cruel disease.

Depends on how long they had been there. If OP came in after them, she won't know.

Waiting isn't possible for some people so if it can be avoided, that is what they will do.

No issue. I was at the sink in the ladies at a train station last week and a male security guard shouted “security check” and just walked in, did his check and walked out. It’s a public space - you aren’t getting naked in the main area so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t let people make you feel like you’ve got some sort of ‘ism’ because you felt weird and they claim they wouldn’t! It’s perfectly normal to find that a little disconcerting, I would have. I find situations like this difficult, it sounds all very innocent, he apologised, was elderly, was actually with his wife and I am a strong, fit, loud woman that would have felt in no way vulnerable. However, if we say we should be absolutely fine with this then where is the line drawn? What if you are a vulnerable woman using the toilets and there’s a man in there that is lying about his intentions? How would you know? You wouldn’t immediately know if the stall was closed. I don’t think it’s okay OP. I feel sorry for people that need support like this but there has to be a better way to deal with it than making women uncomfortable. They should have checked the disabled toilet, made their presence known perhaps by announcing there is a male in there assisting his wife or even used an adult incontinence product as a last resort. I have a disabled child and there are certain places we cannot go anymore because it’s inappropriate for him to be in a female space, it’s crap but I accept that and adapt as should they.

So children can’t go into men’s toilets with their dads, presumably because people don’t like the idea of them being around men using the toilet, but men are allowed in the women’s toilets? Make it make sense.

They should use disabled that’s what it’s for, but I wouldn’t really mind

@CheeseWisely No, we don't need to wait for people who should not be using the facilities to leave.

They need to leave. They need not to enter.

Otherwise I'll be using disabled facilities whenever there's a queue and I don't feel like waiting - why not? It's a special situation

It’s interesting that in this scenario the able-bodied male didn’t think to take the woman into the men’s toilet. However, he should have asked a staff member to check to loo was empty and asked them to stand outside whilst he went in if there really was no alternative.

But if men are so so bad in your view why do you then think it’s ok for young girls to be exposed to them

Boys can.
Did posters not realise the effect of the new law?

Because they’re under the supervision of their fathers.

I don’t think little girls should be wandering into the men’s toilets alone.

Near supermarkets which both have one, Greggs has one, KFC has two, Costa has two, Starbucks has one, every pub I pass has one, town centre has a public one, most of the cafes have one, little local Coop has one ........

This whole thread is uproar about women’s rights and dignity. And yet, the WOMEN posting in the thread are saying this lady doesn’t deserve her rights and dignity and should wear incontinence pads if she can’t use a toilet without a carer.

FFS

I don't think there's anything wrong with men.

In fact I think they also have a right to privacy and dignity and their own single sex spaces.

Women shouldn't be going into their facilities either.

So a disabled woman shouldn’t be using the women’s toilets? Wow just wow.

men tend use urinals which are visible I wouldn’t want my young daughter exposed to strange men’s penis’.

Yeah this. ^ I am baffled at the amount of women on here who would so mortifed and angry and upset at a man coming into the womens public loos in the circumstances the OP has described. No-one I know in real life would be upset by this.

Parallel world of Mumsnet strikes again!

Why are you purposely missing the point to make your argument?
It really undermines your own point.

For the hard of comprehension 'people who should not be using the facilities' refers to people in wrong sex facilities - not the woman.

So it’s important that single sex places exist for women but not if you are disabled

The law says little girls can’t use men’s toilets. Just because her father is there that doesn’t make it ok.

There is no "new law".

The EA had it confirmed by the recent SC ruling that single sex refers to biological sex.

The EA does not apply to individuals. It applies to organisations: venues, public areas and so forth.

It means that organisations, if they label facilities as single sex, cannot encourage or direct members of the public into the wrong sex loo.

It remains completely legal for an individual of one sex to be in the opposite sex loo.

A man commits no crime by going into or using a ladies and vice versa.