Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

Better than a man in the ladies.

So then when that girl is a bit older and using the bathroom herself you are happy for her to go into the ladies and find a man there?

I was RAPED so violently that if I describe it here it’s deleted.

it’s not sex abuse for a man to take his daughter to the toilet.

Why do I have to be re-traumatised just because a man can’t tell his daughter to shut her eyes?

The same as I have to when I have to wait.

No its not ok, they should have used the disabled toilet.

As for people saying what if she needed the toilet at a second's notice or she'll shit herself- there is no place on earth that you can go in public and absolutely guarantee that at any given point in time there will always be a ladies toilet free to use immediately.

I have gone to plenty of places and all the ladies stalls have been engaged and I've had to wait- what happens then? is he supposed to force the doors open and drag other women out of them to make space for his wife? If you are likely to soil yourself within a matter of seconds in public then it might not be a good idea to rely on public toilets as they may or may not be engaged- that is something none of us has any control over.

The thing is we don't know if he is just helping his wife or if he wants use this as a chance to perve. Unfortunately enough men are like that, including carers, and it makes us wary. If someone was repeatedly in the women's loo when an accessible toilet is available then there may be a problem. As a one off we don't know. But understandably, it's odd to see a man standing there and not unreasonable to feel slightly weird about it.

And if there aren’t any? It’s pretty obvious there will always be the odd exception.

But OK for a woman to be in the men's toilet, don't be so ridiculous., we need more disabled, mother and baby and single toilets for everyone.

Completely off topic but when I went to the Eras Tour it was at the rugby stadium in Edinburgh. There were far more men’s toilets than women’s and women just barged right into the men’s.

We were all bursting and the queues to the very small number of women’s toilets were massive. The men didn’t care. Everyone was there for the same reason.

On a point of information, it is not usually possible to fit two adults and a zimmer frame/walker or wheelchair into one standard toilet cubicle.

if needed, the process is usually that disabled person goes in first then turns round ninety degrees to slide/sit onto the toilet. The frame/chair can then by slowly edged out of the way (door won’t close if it’s inside) and the carer takes the frame/chair outside the cubicle and shuts the door from the outside.

they may well need to hold the cubicle shut as well as usually the disabled adult isn’t able to lock it from the inside.

This makes sense.

Except men aren’t generally at risk in the toilets when invaded by women.

She could have asked a woman to hold the door shut

Another point, if I had let my daughter go to the toilets alone and she came out saying there was an old man in there, I’d have hit the roof.

No it isn’t and no there isn’t.

Same, I was also raped as a child and an adult.
It is sex abuse to expose a child to the genitals of strange men.
Tell me, do you think closing our eyes would have made what we went through not happen? Not be sexual assault or abuse?

No.

Your trauma is yours to bear as is mine. It is not an excuse to traumatise another generation of girls so we can avoid the discomfort of seeing or hearing a fully clothed man assisting a female relative.

Ladies are single cubicle so slightly different than grown men standing at urinals.

I understand this view. I also understand that women who are disabled or have incontinence issues will themselves have a good reason to prefer a safe single sex space.
I think the instance described is very much a one off and the sort of thing that should be explained and agreed with everyone present. Most women wouldn’t object to a male carer who had asked permission to enter.
But The fundamental rule should be that single sex places are for the designated sex only .

I send my young daughters into the ladies alone, because they are perceived to be safe. I would be very angry to find random men in there. If there is a disabled toilet available this couple should use that if she needs assistance by an opposite sex carer.

I have in my time found dads hovering outside the ladies with young girls, who don’t know what to do when their daughters don’t want to go in the men’s. On every occasion I’ve asked if they want to come with us (usually I’ve had my girls with me), and they’ve been happy with that arrangement.

I’ve also had to send an dad out of the ladies changing rooms at swimming. We have men’s, women’s and family. There’s open changing in the men’s and women’s. I told him it wasn’t appropriate for him to be around unrelated female children when they were changing. As his daughters were managing in a cubicle I suggested the family area would be a better fit.

Men should not be in the ladies, in any circumstances.

I’m sorry for what you went through.

The law says that man shouldn’t be there. No man should be.

if you’re not happy with your daughter going to the me s loo with her dad then thats for you to navigate.

I'm happy for you, but I feel very uncomfortable being in close proximity to males. They intimidate me. I wouldn't feel safe lowering my trousers - particularly if it wasn't floor to ceiling cubicles - with a man waiting outside. I'm happy that you've not yet been tainted by the world enough to feel uncomfortable, and genuinely hope you never are, but honestly - this does not feel safe for MANY women.

They should have used the disabled toilet. I also think Dad’s should go into the men’s if they have young daughters with them.

Dream on. People always get caught short when it comes to unpredictable bodily functions. For every law on the books there are exceptions. You’re living in a fantasy if you think otherwise.

@SALaw

It was available when the OP arrived - but it might not have been available before, when the elderly couple got there.

Yes.
Women's toilet isn't a catch all for everyone and the girl should be perfectly ok with her father.

There is a difference from the OP's case - disabled adult should still have a dignity of using provisions according to their sex (which doesn't apply at young children with parent) and, that a carer for disabled adult is often a professional / relative close to professional level of behaviour, which can't be said about the entire parenting population.