The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

[Northermcharn]

I read this quote and it encapsulates exactly how I feel

'I never thought I'd see the day when the Right became the cool ones giving the finger to the establishment, and the Left became the snivelling self-righteous ones going around shaming everybody'

AIBU to think this is what many people think these days? We didn't leave the left, the left left us.

*the quote is from John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten. He's deliberately provocative in lots of ways, but he meant this one. I fully expect some people to come on the thread to tell us all how he's a horror and said he likes Donald Trump. That would be them missing the point.. but.. Let Them..

Socialists are certainly very good at throwing other peoples' money away.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tories-squandered-130bn-of-taxpayer-money-since-2019_uk_665c2a0be4b003ee36a06035

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/100WastesDossier.pdf

You say you used to be left wing. When you said it left you behind, I thought you meant causes like social justice and gender stuff left you cold. But, you seem to actually dislike socialism which has always been left wing. So... I'm very confused now 😂

You’re not alone in that.

Posters on this thread are leading us all to an existential crisis. It's all so hopelessly contradictory..

What I mean is, it's bedtime.

This is a terrible idea.

Why? Worried what your friends, family and neighbours would make of your voting intentions?

At the very least it would eliminate the shy Tory/Reform phenomenon that keeps cropping up at the ballot.

This is insanity. It’s not what any left wing person I’ve ever met believes.

This is insanity. It’s not what any left wing person I’ve ever met believes.

I think it must be satire - or a pissed off former Stasi operative who from calling the shots then found themselves unemployable.

I certainly hope so. Unfortunately people seem to be getting more and more hysterical about other people’s voting choices and not appreciating the fact that people are entitled to choose for themselves who they vote for.

He is definitely the establishment because of his political and finance background - and his education.

He was an MEP for two decades and has now been an MP for two years after standing for election eight time. He worked as a trader. He went to a fee-paying school as a kid.

Yet he portrays himself as anti-establishment by being outspoken and provocative and making sure he has a good one-liner or two to support or bash the latest national talking point as required. What a clever chameleon he is.

Boris Johnson was exactly the same. I wish the two of them were just permanently employed as Have I got news for you hosts and not allowed to do any other jobs tbh.

A secret ballot is a key part of democracy, so won’t that undermine democracy?

Oddly enough, I find you do a good enough job shaming yourselves that you don’t really need our help.

I agree with you that Labour abandoned the working class, whatever that even means nowdays, when Blair came in.
However, it is ironic that you accuse the left of patronising and belittling the working class/trad left voters and then you literally start a post to do exactly the same to more left leaning voters on here.
If you think that the Tories are going to help the working class, you must have memory loss and be very naive. They won't be any better than Labour have been. There is v little discernable difference between Lab and Con nowadays, although the Cons tend to be more nasty to the poor/those on benefits.

People would still be able to vote for whatever party they feel represents them and their interests best, for me that is what a democracy is about.

But given how important politics is in today's space, and how damaging voting for the wrong party can be for certain folks, it is high time that people are made to stand by the candidates that they choose to back. I don't want to feel like I don't know who is voting for who anymore, it's giving me too much anxiety.

I would choose not to employ you based on your views, irrespective of your voting history.

@rainingsnoring 'I agree with you that Labour abandoned the working class, whatever that even means nowdays'

Quite. Whatever that means nowadays. I define working class as people who need to work for a living, to pay the bills, to have a decent life. That could be a person working on a check out, a builder, a teacher, a lawyer, a scientist, a vet, an accountant - any one else who works for a living. They have in common the need to work to pay bills. I fully understand the origins of the class definitions, and in earlier years eg. an accountant would be 'white collar' so middle class etc etc blah blah. These definitions simply don't work any more.

Today we have the working class, people who work. They need to work to have an income. Then we have 2 groups who don't need to work for their income - the
*benefits class, and the super rich class (catchy name I thought) - they have streams of income but don't need to work for it in the traditional sense (anymore).

So no Labour do not work for the working class, they're currently punishing most of the working class (and I see Rayner et al want to go further, they have no idea). They work for the benefits class only (and themselves of course), and that is totally destructive. No growth etc.

*And it goes without saying, but I will say it because I know 'some' people will jump up and down on it - I am not being derogatory about people who need to claim benefits. One day who knows who will need to do so. They are important, a safety net for many people. Well that was their original purpose. Unfortunately now they have become a way of life an or an aim for many (to deny that is to be ignorant) - and that is unsustainable.

Well I'm sorry but why wouldn't you? I am a member of multiple organisations that help disadvantaged people from around the world. I've worked for 2 years with Care for Calais and donate rather generously to various charities. I don't mean to toot my own horn here but you will not find a more selfless, dedicated individual than myself. Unless you own a company expressly for the purpose of doing harm to marganilsed people then you would be lucky to have me quite frankly.

How do you propose Labour works for the working class as you define them?
Anyone who works for their money is a huge, varied and diverse group, with many competing interests.
A person who works and employs others on low wages and short term contracts in order to make their business profitable, will have directly opposing interests to one of their employees who wants a steady job and to earn sufficient they don't need UC top ups.
A landlord who want to make a high profit from renting out their property will have conflicting interests to a tenant who wants to pay an affordable rent. And both may be in conflict with tax payers who don't want to subsidise someone's rent and someone's investment property through UC top ups. (Although perhaps as landlords profit from assets not labour, you'd put them in your 'super rich' class?)
My point, no party can 'listen to', ie, please, everyone within such a broad group. "Labour isnt listening to the working class" has just become an emotive soundbite to encourage people to see Labour as betraying their traditional voting pool. (The fact you need to invent your own class categories to make this make sense should give you a hint that its not a very robust argument)
In reality what you mean is Labour aren't doing what you want them to (you want to pay less I assume) and are serving the interests of people who aren't you. You could sinply own that for yourself, without hiding behind 'the working class' for validation.

😂

My previous post to you was

Wow.

Hoping for the downfall of the country, self loathing, hatred of white 'colonisers' really sums up some on the left. Is there nothing about the UK you like @InstantlyBella

Then you say various other things in subsequent posts, which implies you know best, and others are wrong. (The 'wrong party') In your view only!

It's a democratic country unlike the countries that need aid. We don't need to import undemocratic practices here so we become like the countries people flee from.

You have made many posts that show who you are and it doesn't match with your own high view of yourself.

"The wrong party" 😂😂😂 Unbelievably arrogant.

Ah I see, you're not accepting the changing society. We're not in 1948 anymore. You're not alone, as the labour party is demonstrating.

No one said it was easy.

'Labour isnt listening to the working class" has just become an emotive soundbite to encourage people to see Labour as betraying their traditional voting pool'

I would have thought the recent local election results, and the associated causal factors of those results might change that view. Ah well.

Sounds like something from communist Russia, comrade!