aibu to think grandparents are just expected to know their place now?

[justme39]

honestly feeling quite upset and not sure if i’m being unreasonable or not.

my ds and dil had their first baby a few months ago and ever since it’s just been rule after rule after rule. no kissing baby, no picking him up straight away if he cries because theyre trying to teach self soothing, dont call him my baby because apparently thats boundary crossing now 🙄

i’ve kept my mouth shut mostly because i dont want drama but yesterday i honestly felt humiliated. baby was asleep on me and i kissed the top of his head without even thinking and dil immediately goes we’re not doing that in this really sharp voice in front of everyone. atmosphere after was awful.

i do feel there’s a lack of respect if i’m honest. i’ve raised 3 children perfectly well, all grown adults with good jobs and houses etc so its not like i dont know what im doing. yet if i mention he looks cold or maybe he’s overtired suddenly im undermining.

another thing that upset me was photos. i put ONE picture on facebook after he was born because family were asking and you’d think i’d leaked government documents. ds rang me asking me to remove it because dil was really anxious. i did remove it but i wont lie i cried after because it just feels like nothing i do is right.

i’ve also offered loads of help. meals, cleaning, having baby so they can nap etc but apparently they want to figure things out themselves. then dil posts online about how exhausted she is all the time. i honestly dont know what we’re meant to do anymore as grandparents except buy things and sit there quietly.

now ds hardly messages unless she’s included as well which never used to happen

aibu to think younger parents are so obsessed with boundaries and gentle parenting they forget other people have feelings too?

Or rake into account what OP said her son told her about his issue with her behaviour that stems from before the baby even existed.

OP said he told her that he felt like he has had to manage her emotions for years because every time an issue comes up, she gets upset to the point of tears and ends up being the one comforted so the issue doesn’t get resolved.

OP has shown a bit of that here in regards to her posting a pic on social media. She chose not to add in her original post that they told her not to post pictures and she did it anyway. She talks more about how upset she is because he told her to take it down and says because DIL was anxious when she knew she shouldn’t have put it up in the first place.

He is fed up and why shouldn’t he be? He is thinking of how he wants his son to grow up and he doesn’t want him thinking her behaviour is ok or that it is a normal reaction.

OP’s posts are more about making out his wife is the problem instead of considering and downplaying how her actions have contributed to this.

She says she raised 3 successful children yet in the same breath wants to make out that her son can’t think for himself because he isn’t allowing her to do what she wants.

my ds and dil had their first baby a few months ago and ever since it’s just been rule after rule after rule.

I think that this shows how little respect Op has for her son & dil.

OP sounds like a fussy but well meaning lady. I don't know why DIL can't tolerate that (I do think it is probably coming from that corner). It all sounds very clenched, we were like that with our DS, we had extraordinarily high standards for anything you could think of, it was exhausting for us and everyone else and it was probably a waste of time.

And another thing, isn't the point of boundaries that they be set far enough back from the real triggers that they protect both parties from irreparable conflict? Eg I don't lend my xyz to anyone, (not because I don't want you to use it but I would be so angry if I never got it back).

Some people use NC as a weapon! It seems a bit extreme to cut your mother off because she doesn’t admit fault or gets upset when you bring it up! A lot of people are like this, including my own mother. Because I love her, I have learnt to manage this so it doesn’t impact my mental health

But the son says the mother weaponises her emotions and plays the victim. NC is an effective strategy when required.

I don’t think you realise how tiring it can be to have a relationship with someone who never admits fault. It means they always end up getting their way and pushing you down and sideways- for a year or two it’s bearable, for decades it grinds you down.

No, it doesn't at all sound as though it's coming from DiL's corner. This has come direct from OP's DS. He's told her, in very clear terms, exactly the issue and that this is the result of a longstanding pattern in their relationship. As he's also explained, it's the arrival of that baby that's caused the shift in his thinking.

I'm aware it's very easy and convenient to blame the nearest available woman when something is amiss between a son and his family of origin. It avoids taking personal responsibility, or examining the real state of the relationship between family and son.

OP has not tried to blame her DiL. Nor has she taken the line so many estranged parents insist upon: that they have no idea what could possibly have caused the breach. That is to her credit. She simply sees things differently from her son; alignment might come when she's able to see his perspective as well.

I've seen the estrangement boards on Gransnet - for reasons I won't go into here and which are not relevant to this thread. This is how I know that site isn't necessarily the best place for OP at present. For those who are reconciled to permanent estrangement, then yes, they might find a source of solace and support there.

As to the rest, they expend a great deal of time and energy constantly lamenting the evils of their adult children, disclaiming the smallest shred of responsibility on their side, insisting they have no idea what went wrong and railing about how cruel the world is to them. This seems to arise from an absolute belief that they should have carte blanche to expect nothing short of compliance from their adult offspring.

It's not got them very far, has it? Look where these are people are now. Still in denial. Still estranged.

If you're one of those who does hope for reconciliation, this is just about the last thing you need to hear.

That's just the sort of scorched earth approach that makes people impatient with Mumsnet. Things are by no means necessarily this final.

OP might be able to turn this around if she takes the well-meaning advice upthread, seriously tries to take on board what's gone wrong, and works on it, preferably with the help of therapy.

If DS still doesn't want to reconcile after all this, then none of that effort will have gone to waste. OP will have learned some very valuable things and will be better equipped with the emotional tools to rebuild her life, whatever that looks like from this point onward.

The relationship with her DiL may not be salveable, but this doesn't really matter if DS can facilitate her relationship with him and her grandchild. Perhaps this isn't the ideal scenario but I'm thinking here of the right of the child to know and have a relationship with her/his grandma. It's an extremely valuable relationship and not one which, as a parent, I would ever cut off unless their behaviour really did leave me no alternative.

I suspect the son is every bit as devastated by all this. Things may very well still have a reasonably positive outcome, if OP is willing to move toward this.

Blaming 'DiL' is not going to help. An honest reflection might.

@SerafinasGoose
I do hope everything works out for OP and the relationship is healed, and I think the best thing to do now is to back off. But you have not changed my opinion that the son is looking around for excuses to agree with the person in charge - the person setting the standards and mother of his child. Men just don’t care about kissing babies or think about online pictures

I agree.
In this scenario, OP has definitely crossed the line, a few times.
The relationship is destroyed. Keeping quiet for at least one year might give them a chance of repairing it.

@Methodstothemadnessdid you miss the bit where I said my own mother is like this?

Or they might just realise how easier their life is without her.

I have no issues with my grown son and live hundreds of miles away England/Scotland). My son and I are, and have always been close and from there stems jealously on the side of DiL, plus immaturity. (They are both 28). My son wanted us to visit to see the new baby last year but Dil blocked it saying I could not go for a month. Although her mother was allowed straight away. My son blocked that and said same rules apply to both mothers. I got to go after 2 weeks). Fortunately, I get to see my grandchild every 3 months due to the distance but DiL refuses to engage with me whatsoever. I’m just a ‘her’ or ‘she’. Very sad indeed.

I think it’s hard being a new mum and dad, and working out what you want to do for your baby and how you want to raise them. You might have done a good job but it might not be how your son and his wife want to raise their child.

My MIL did a good job raising my husband, and my mum did a good job raising me, but there are things both of them did which I opted not to do, such as using dummy’s, formula, moving to own rooms earlier.

Some of the things sound a little precious but ultimately they are the parents and it’s their rules.

I wasn't attempting to alter your opinion. I'm merely disagreeing with it. Strongly.

You have no idea that OP's DiL is 'in charge'. OP has neither said nor suggested that this is the case. Making the automatic assumption that another woman is to blame is a very common response to those in denial about everything but their own contribution to the situation. And pigeonholing men into one category is just as restrictive. My own DH, for one, does not want pictures of our DC online, any more than I do.

Read any variation on the same theme: the threads have been all over MN since time immemorial. Always the woman's fault. It's cliched to the point of tedium.

Life rarely is so straightforward or cut-and-dried as this. On this point, I'd say OP has called it entirely right. But what is for sure is that giving her a convenient scapegoat will do nothing at all to mend her situation.

Quite the reverse.

So remove the new baby from the conversation for a moment.

Your DIL had a significant life event/medical event/possibly major surgery. She wanted her mum to be with her but asked that other family don’t visit for a month whilst she recovers. She was possibly bleeding, in pain, recovering, struggling emotionally with the changes and might not want wider family to see that. She might have wanted help from her mum with dressings or establishing feeding.

But because she didn’t want to see her MIL then her mum was blocked from coming too. Can you see why that seems unfair?

Now of course there is a baby who is equally your grandchild there too and I get that but mums right to see people when she feels able and ready trumps any family members right to meet the new baby.

I’m sure if your son was the one in that position then he’d want you there before his in-laws and that would equally be ok.

I don’t think that was the case.
The DS unlocked his mother from a month to two weeks wait.
DIL mother wasn’t blocked at all.

A month is a little extreme! I get not wanting in-laws there the moment the baby is fresh out of the uterus. I asked for a few days before in-laws came over (didn’t get it, got less than 24hrs) and absolutely not to visiting whilst I was still in hospital. I had rough births and it just wasn’t appropriate for my in-laws to be sat there whilst I was naked with a catheter in and various drips. My mother was there because she’s my mother. She was there for her baby not just to see the new baby. She’s seen my vagina. And many many others (retired midwife) She was there to support me, not just cuddle a new grandchild.

Birth is a very vulnerable time for women, even if you’ve had a straight forward one. You want familiarity and emotional safety, not grabby in-laws who see you as an incubator (not saying you are!) It’s not the same rule for both grandmothers early postpartum. After that, then yes, I personally feel it should be equal, unless MIL or Mum are hostile.

It wasn’t my decision about equal rules apply. It was also a normal delivery. I’m a mother. I’ve been through birth and previously being a health visitor, know exactly the emotional and physiological impact of birth, so I am aware of all that. Birth and early fatherhood also impacts on fathers and my son also wanted support from his mum. I play by their rules, I don’t interfere or give advice, yet I’m still seen as the devil MiL. If she had her way, I would never see my son or grandchild again. It is not always the MiLs problem. Sometimes it’s the DiL.

That’s a ridiculous assumption and so dismissive to the many men who are involved fathers and parents.

There's a lot of control involved here. I mean by the parents. I think new parents nowadays are completely overinvested in monitoring, regulating, over labelling stuff which is just par for the course, and it comes at the expense of letting lose on basic love and affection.
It's generational.
Also generational, new parents nowadays seem quite trigger happy in issuing ultimatums against people who don't buy into all the parent labels they subscribe to. Abusive! Intrusive! Cruel! Outdated! We don't do that, so fuck off. And then some half arsed justification.

It's so sad to see the world turn this way, an over abundance of ridiculous rules, as if thousands upon thousands of years of humans parenting people successfully has never actually happened. As if familial love and affection is a threat.

Their loss.

This site is a biased population for sure, but what is the ratio of threads with themes such as; “DH does nothing would it be easier alone / exDH uses his Mother for childcare on his days/ etc” to “DH is amazing we can fuck in-laws and my parents right off with their old fashioned ideas and trying to help”

We, at first l, thought we had invented having a baby and it blinkered us for a while, I am glad we didn’t go as far as this couple in our pursuit of perfection, but we might have.

also @SerafinasGoose

I don't follow these points at all. I'm not joining the dots as to their relevance, or why I've been tagged.

I think in this instance its important to remember that it may not necessarily be personal. She's recovering from birth/section and potentially trying to BF and can be herself and relaxed around her mum and she cant be the same around you. She's exhausted and maybe wants to relax and recover first before baby gets passed around. Her mother is possibly more helpful and she feels comfortable accepting help from her MIL eg I love my MIL but she didnt visit for 6weeks after birth (her decision not mine) but in hindsight it was perfect because I got a chance to recover and get over the initial hormone drop days etc.

My own mother came and took laundry which I wouldn't have felt comfortable my MIL doing etc

Im probably not articulating it well but basically I needed more time to recover and settle into my new role than even I thought, it was my MIL who knew this and gave us space and we had to push her to come. I hindsight she was right. I struggled the first few weeks, id had a haemorrhage, i was dizzy standing, i was struggling emotionally etc .

She gave me time and came when she could be the most help and she was and ill always appreciate that.

But the baby is equally the sons/ husbands so why shouldn't he get a say.