aibu to think grandparents are just expected to know their place now?

[justme39]

honestly feeling quite upset and not sure if i’m being unreasonable or not.

my ds and dil had their first baby a few months ago and ever since it’s just been rule after rule after rule. no kissing baby, no picking him up straight away if he cries because theyre trying to teach self soothing, dont call him my baby because apparently thats boundary crossing now 🙄

i’ve kept my mouth shut mostly because i dont want drama but yesterday i honestly felt humiliated. baby was asleep on me and i kissed the top of his head without even thinking and dil immediately goes we’re not doing that in this really sharp voice in front of everyone. atmosphere after was awful.

i do feel there’s a lack of respect if i’m honest. i’ve raised 3 children perfectly well, all grown adults with good jobs and houses etc so its not like i dont know what im doing. yet if i mention he looks cold or maybe he’s overtired suddenly im undermining.

another thing that upset me was photos. i put ONE picture on facebook after he was born because family were asking and you’d think i’d leaked government documents. ds rang me asking me to remove it because dil was really anxious. i did remove it but i wont lie i cried after because it just feels like nothing i do is right.

i’ve also offered loads of help. meals, cleaning, having baby so they can nap etc but apparently they want to figure things out themselves. then dil posts online about how exhausted she is all the time. i honestly dont know what we’re meant to do anymore as grandparents except buy things and sit there quietly.

now ds hardly messages unless she’s included as well which never used to happen

aibu to think younger parents are so obsessed with boundaries and gentle parenting they forget other people have feelings too?

The rules and norms over what we should do with babies change over time. theyve definitely changed since my teenagers were born. That isn’t a criticism of the way previous generations did things, it’s just the current wisdom on how things should be done. And while we might not agree with things, or think they’re necessary, I think we also have a duty to let parents do the things that they feel to be right with the information they have

To be very blunt, the kissing advice is a public health guideline and in place to reduce a possibility of infant mortality, and people put social media bans in place due to concerns about online safety and misuse of images for child porn and abuse. When put like that, why would a grandparent - or anyone actually - dispute these requests?

it is not about any generation being more or less important than any other, which is exactly why it’s not unreasonable for the parents to want to adhere to the current health advice for the baby, even if the grandmother feels upset by this

That’s YOUR opinion exactly-not OP son, OP’s DIL or qualified medical professions. According to https://www.sussex.ics.nhs.uk/nhs-calls-on-parents-to-know-the-signs-and-symptoms-of-rsv-as-rates-of-the-illness-increase-in-sussex/ “RSV illness is a major cause of winter pressures in children’s hospitals each year leading to pressure on paediatric wards, intensive care units, including cancelled operations.
It accounts for approximately 20,000 hospitalisations in children under one year-of-age and is responsible for 20 to 30 infant deaths a year in the UK” RSV and HSV are risks

My mum was told to put a baby to sleep on their front because they sleep better. And it’s absolutely true that in most cases they do. But it also raises the likelihood of SIDS. So whilst she will see her way from experience as being better, current guidance and research says otherwise.

Equally, my mum will say a baby should be kept warm and snug and they are happier like that. Again true, but also comes with increased risks.

parents are familiarising themselves with research, grandparents are often relying on experience and instinct without informing themselves of the latest research because they feel they don’t “need” to.

Err all of this

“We stood up for ourselves then and we will do so again”? The parents typically hold all the cards though?! No point in picking it as a hill to die on -you won’t “win”. The parents can and will parent in their own way, for THEIR child. FYI it always gives me a chuckle when grandparents bang on about “their rights” on here, they don’t exist and legal forced access is rare

How does that work then? Do you think that you can just demand unlimited and unfettered access to your grandchildren while refusing to follow any of her rules, such as no posting photos on social media, and your DIL will just back down?

Are older women going to go on marches for more grandparents rights? What would your leverage be? Withdrawal of labour? How would that work in OP's case as her DIL would probably be happy to never see her again.

No, it means I’m not going to go stand by and ignore the type of language I’ve highlighted!

Nobody is telling older women to shut up and be put in their place. 🙄

Parents are telling relatives of all ages and genders their rules for their baby. It’s really that simple.

People are not prepared to be pushed around and told what to do with their child. Be that by a 20 year old or an 80 year old. Be that their granny or grandad an uncle or aunt or a cousin, or even just John and Sue from work.

You want access to the child you listen to the parents. You have no rights or responsibilities.

You have no power to wield and if you want to go well if you don’t let me do whatever then never ever ask me for help in the future, then cool knock yourself out they probably don’t want your strings attached self absorbed help anyway.

As an older woman this sounds a bit batshit to be honest. You're being told you don't have the right to usurp mothers and fathers. And you don't. You have no rights over other people's babies, even if you're related to them. You have no power over how younger women parent their own children.

There is no "language" to pretend to be offended about. It's just facts. Learn your place, which is not that of the mother or father. That's what everyone has to do in life - know their place.

Or keep sounding bonkers and being ignored by parents who will keep on parenting their own kids as they please. Those are your options.

Sorry, but you’re not listening to what I’m saying.

I am talking about the language used.

I’m saying that it has gone too far.
Within a family it’s inappropriate for one adult to tell another to ‘do as you’re told’ and to ‘defer .’

IMO it’s a matter of respecting the mother’s wishes, not obeying her rules. It matters because it reveals underlying attitudes.

My DMIL really was seriously unpleasant to me ( way, way worse than the infractions discussed on this thread ) but never would I have wished to ‘punish’ her as recommended here, nor do I wish I had in retrospect.

Horrible though she was , she still deserved basic human respect and to be thought of as a family member.

It’s basic , not batshit!

PS She and my DFIL went on to have wonderful relationships with my DC and after about 30 years she came to love me. So, no way do I wish I’d gone NC. I learned later that she was suffering from severe clinical depression,

I think DIL rules seem way off. If a friend spoke to me like this I’d be distancing myself from them. Unfortunately for you this is your family. Give them their space. That’s the only option they have given you.

There's no "language" that has gone too far. Yep, it is appropriate to tell people who think they have rights over your baby that they don't.

Yep, you will know your place when it comes to other people's babies. Yep, when you overstep as OP has done repeatedly you will no longer be asked, you will be told what to do.

Yep to imagine any good outcome from making demands, trying to wield imaginary power and having a melt down over the fact that you have zero power over other people's parenting and choices for their baby is indeed batshit and will hurt only you.

Not complex at all. Hope this helps.

It took 30 years for her to love you?

She was horrible to you, disrespectful and you just took it?

Why?

Why accept disrespect from someone like that and being clinically depressed is not a reason for being horrible to people?

Are you from a culture or grew up where people that are older than you automatically get respect no matter how they treat you?

All I can say is, had I done what is recommended here, the results for the family would have been too horrible to contemplate.
I’m not talking about about ordinary depression, it was severe treatment resistant depression, and, it does explain her behaviour, though that didn’t make it easier at the time for me. I can’t bear to think what would have happened to my DFIL.
No, it nothing to do with other cultures, it’s to do with the genuine challenges of family life looked at in the round.
That actually explains why I’m so horrified by some of the language and attitudes on display here.

Who mentioned younger women? You're arguing a very insubstantial straw man. here I explicitly said that babies have 'two parents'. That includes the father: (a bloke, in case that needed pointing out). If you are not one of the two people who are parents to a baby, then you don't get to make the parenting decisions. They do.

As far as the imaginary younger vs. older woman schtick is concerned, you're allowing that trope to do a lot of heavy lifting. Not that it was even relevant to my point, but you have no idea of my actual age.

I'm aware some people really dislike being told what to do. But what earthly need can there be to 'stand up for yourself' when it comes to other people's parenting decisions; decisions which were never yours to make in the first place?

I'm intrigued.

Oh, give over!

I think you need to give them time. The situation sounds very fraught. Your dil sounds overly anxious and you have made some mistakes. Give them time to find their feet and be there for when they need you. The baby doesn't belong to anyone as it is it's own person and all family around the baby want to and it would be lovely to have their own separate relationships with the baby. However they are the primary carers and should be respected. Posting the photo on line was not ok and is nothing to do with your relationship with baby - there was literally no need to do that. This makes me think that you are possibly being more provocative than you are admitting to yourself and you should take the time apart from your son to reflect really honestly on your own behaviour rather than on theirs. What would you really like and what do you need to change to achieve that?

My DMIL really was seriously unpleasant to me ( way, way worse than the infractions discussed on this thread ) but never would I have wished to ‘punish’ her as recommended here, nor do I wish I had in retrospect.

Why do you think anyone would want to, or indeed should, put up with this?

For reasons known only to you, you decided to maintain a relationship with someone who “was seriously unpleasant” to you. And not only that, but to foster a relationship between them and your children.

That isn’t normal.

People like your MIL cause real harm, especially to children, and most parents instinctively keep harmful people away from their children.

Would you expect a woman to stay in a marriage with a husband who “was seriously unpleasant” to her? Or to nurture a friendship with an individual who “was seriously unpleasant” to her?

Do you think that maintaining those relationships would have no effect on a woman’s emotional wellbeing?

People don’t get a pass to be abusive and toxic and to bring that crap into other people’s lives. MILs are no exception.

‘Do you think that maintaining those relationships would have no effect on a woman’s emotional wellbeing?’
It’s not what I think! I KNOW it made me feel unhappy and worthless.
Nevertheless, it was better to learn to look past her petty vindictive behaviour.
30 years on, I hardly think about it but I know she pla yed a huge part in my DC’s developing identity and happiness. I don’t regret it. I couldn’t have changed her. Only time did that..,

Serafina, nothing intriguing about it.

I’m talking about about the LANGUAGE used on this thread to define acceptable relations between older and younger women,

It doesn’t matter what age you are nor that babies have fathers.

I deplore the exploitation of the power imbalance , the insistence on ‘deference ‘ and ‘obedience.’

This isn’t appropriate to family life IMO. That’s all.

It seems you need the obvious pointing out to you rather a lot.

This discussion isn't within the context of family life. It's a public discussion board.

HTH.

You will obey the guidelines of the mother and father of your grandchild, or privileges will be removed.

Reality doesn't care how you feel.

You only have to revert to using power and “obedience” when you keep asking for family to do things nicely and they ignore you.

No one is demanding in the first instance. The problem is many new mums ask for quite reasonable things- like don’t post pictures on social media, family ignore their rules and when these new mums then dare assert themselves everyone gets offended. They shouldn’t have had to assert themselves in the first place.

No-one should have to put up with feeling unhappy and worthless. Having a mum who feels unhappy and worthless is definitely going to have a big impact on children. It’s important to me that my DCs see me stand up for myself, assert my boundaries and theirs where necessary. You martyred yourself to a deeply unpleasant woman, and are advising other people to do the same.

There are too many people on this thread who seem to like to tell other people what to do rather than simply spend time together.

I'm not sure whether their personalities were domineering or overbearing to begin with, or whether it's something that a new baby brings out in previously reasonable people.

But I'd never go into someone's house and tell them how they should redesign their kitchen or look after their pets. Though I might like to give the family dog or cat a pat and a cuddle if it was welcome.

Why would I tell someone how they should be looking after their kids (code for "in exactly the same way that I looked after MY kids because I did it perfectly") and expect it to be well-received?

What happens when the parents have different views. Does one automatically take priority?