Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

It seems like you probably overreacted a bit in the circumstances (understandable), the doctor made a comment (an unnecessary and insensitive one) that made you defensive and brought up bad feelings from what you went through with your own child, so you said what you said in the heat of the moment.
Now instead of accepting that that’s what it was, you are doubling down.
It was an unreasonable thing to say though.
You have no reason to think this woman will ever have kids. You probably wouldn’t have said it to a male doctor.
But at the same time, I think I get where you were coming from. The instincts you get to protect children as a mother can be very powerful. It’s good for a doctor to be calm and objective, but it’s also good that parents have (usually) have a strong, innate ability to react quickly and with emotion (as if it was their own child).

The situation happened. You said what you did-and were right to say that. It’s not necessary to revisit that interchange should you see her in a non-professional role again.

I think she was very off to voice that at that particular time. She needs to learn when silence is golden. A doctor I knew evacutated a very sick baby by helicopter and the baby died on the way. She was SO upset. I really worried for her because as a pediatric doctor (and especially in her line of work) she will see children in pain, very very sick and some will die and will have massively distraught parents. While she has bo be caring/warm she will also need to create a distance or she will be a nervous wreck in no time. I think this is what this person meant but she just came across as a cold cow.

FFS how obnoxious of you. And yes I'm a mother.

YANBU, but what I hope she was trying to say, badly, is that she is calm under pressure.

Though even if you are a parent there are plenty of people who had do that AND put their professional hat on, so it's not an ability confined to non-parents.

You want a doctor who will act with emotion as if it’s their own child instead of calm detachment? How do you expect them to make difficult decisions ? Would you expect that of a male doctor as well?

Drs would be burnt out very quickly.

So much missing information. Did she help the child? Was she calm in a crisis? Was the kid ok? I do think doctors tend to get on with the job rather than get caught up in the emotion. Especially in a&e. It’s not necessarily a bad thing.

This. And it’s only ever said to belittle women who are not mothers.

Well, firstly, parents don't always know better than doctors.

But, basically, it's an obnoxious thing to say to anyone, let alone a professional person who is trained in healthcare! If the OP still doesn't understand why, then she's not the empathetic person she evidently believes herself to be.

I personally think it was an awful thing for you to say. Someone said that to me once, they had no idea I had been on the treadmill of IVF unsuccessfully for the past 12 years. It had such a major effect on me that I did not want to go out or see anyone for weeks, if not months. I vowed however that I would never ever say anything so cruel myself, because you never know people's personal circumstances. This has always stayed with me as I felt, feel, I am less of a woman. Someone saying something slightly insensitive can be earth shatteringly painful for another to hear.

What a shitty thing for you to say. You do know that not every woman wants to have or can have children? I can't bear people who think that only by being a mother are you validated as a woman. I'm a teacher and would take a bullet for each and every pupil in my care, I love my DP's children with every fibre in my body, but I have never wanted children of my own.
YABVU

I think a better response would have been "Wow, you've picked up the bedside manner so quickly!"

I am a doctor and I agree with previous posters, this is a newly qualified dr who has clearly very little experience.

Yes it is important to remain calm and to protect yourself, but it is also very important to care about your patients and treat them with respect.

Once this Doctor has actually cared for people she will feel differently. In reality it is impossible to totally shut yourself off emotionally.

While your response was also rude it was probably an early lesson for her in appropriate bedside manner. Thinking about it I probably also said some stupid things when I was a new graduate trying to show off that I’d be mortified by now.

I think the dr’s attitude was arrogant, dismissive and ignorant. A child’s parents can be a valuable and crucial source of info. It’s one thing to be calm in a crisis, but she needs to be careful that doesn’t turn into a lax attitude where things are missed.

I don’t understand what kind of fuckwit doesn’t closely supervise a 4yo on a bike anyway, even just having eyes on them? <<Awaits some Mner’s kid having won the Tour de France aged 4 on a balance bike>>

This is a 4yo with a head injury. I mean likely the kid is fine, but as you say she might understand when she’s a mother. Overall I think you comment was warranted.

Not when the worry is reasonable. This attitude has killed quite a few people I know

Think you come off worse than her tbh. Medical staff do have to ignore the hysteria and get on with the job.

Unless they are writing things off as hysteria when they aren't, which is precisely what happened in this case

Andrea, is this you?

(Andrea Leadsom's assertions to The Times that being a mother would make her a better Prime Minister than Theresa May.)

I don't think it would necessarily be about her becoming a mum, more her becoming a more experienced Dr. She's newly qualified, so hasn't had time in the role to learn different ways to react appropriately in different situations. Sometimes Drs will need to be emotionally detached to deal with the situation, particularly in emergencies when screaming, emotional parents wouldn't help (not suggesting you were in this situation, more how some of the parents she comes across may act). A longer term cancer diagnosis is different, when more empathy and compassion is needed.

Her comments weren't appropriate, but neither was yours, although more understandable as you were looking after a hurt young child and it was in response to something that didn't need to be said.

I know in the early stages of my current role I reacted differently to some clients than I would now, with more experience in how others have reacted to recommendations I have made. Hopefully this Dr will learn over time more emotional intelligence to deal with people in difficult situations.

And sometimes those not killed are seriously and unnecessarily disabled my friend badgered doctors for over a year for her dd

The doctors were really dismissive of her told her she was over anxious and her child was fine. Well it was a brain tumour and if it had been taken out when my friend first went to the Doctor it would’ve been straightforward but with the massive delays when my friend was trying to get doctors to believe her, the child has ended up permanently disabled

It is never okay to say that to a woman, no matter what the context.

I've had it said to me before. I have no children, will never have children and there was never any time when I had even the faintest possibility of having children. I've learnt to live with this but I will never fully heal from it.

Whether this woman has room to improve as a medical professional is a separate issue, but it is never okay to say what you said.

I think doctors see so many patients, and in emergency situations they process the issue mechanically. I think that is what she meant.

don’t think she is uncaring, I think focussed on providing best care to get best outcome

so I think your comment was a bit unnecessary

Often, in an emergency situation, the correct reaction to someone who is anxious and screaming is to stay calm and not fuel their anxiety by fussing and validating it.

And it's not about being a parent. Some parents, when their child has an accident, make the child much worse by being very obviously anxious and panicky around them and fussing too much instead of hiding their fears and being the calm, sensible and soothing presence that they need to be for their injured child. If the parent can't do that, the doctor needs to be that person.

You can see a low-key version of this when kids, eg, fall over in a playground. Some parents immediately rush over and start flapping and saying 'Oh no, poor baby, you've scraped your knee, it's bleeding, does it hurt, it looks so sore' and are visible stressy about it. Others rush over and say 'Ah, OK, don't worry, it's just a little scrape, that must have startled you but it'll stop hurting in a minute, nothing to worry about' and then give them a hug and let the kid get on with it.

It is invariably the first type of parent whose kids scream and cry and look miserable for 20 minutes and want to go home, and the second type of parent whose kids have a quick cuddle and then chill out and go back off to play again.

OP, as you think a doctor doesn't understand certain situations because she's not a mother, maybe you need to remember that you also don't understand certain situations because you're not a doctor. I'm incredibly sorry for what you had to go through with your own child, but the role of doctor in an emergency situation is completely different from the role of a parent or patient and they do need to cut through the panic and focus on the immediate task of treating a child's injury.

You were rude
And Patronising
Would you say to a respiratory doctor
Oh you will understand my respiratory condition if you had asthma like me

That’s not what I said at all.