Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

I think the doctor was lacking in consideration of her friends situation in that moment. You do not know her personal circumstances relating to children. however what she said clearly triggered you. I don’t think you need to say anything more but I can see why you said what you did.

No she doesn’t. She sounds level headed.

I thought the AIBU was going to be 'Should I have said the thing about understanding when you're a mother?', which would have been debatable. I never expected it to be 'Should I take it further by bringing it up again next time I see her?'; that's just mental!

That's so sad, its appalling isnt it.

Thanks for all of the replies.

For those who asked - the child had zoomed away from the mum, knowing the direction to where me and my children were located in the park. The kid was going way too fast, down a steep hill, I just heard the sound of him yelling out hello and saw the fall. It was several minutes until his mum/friend came upon the scene.

I was calm and carried the child to where my stroller was parked so I could get a stack of tissues and stem the blood flow. I was still holding his head tight and had him in my arms sitting on a bench when the mum/doctor arrived. I was not anxious or distressed.

I’m not suggesting that a doctor needs to be anxious or distressed at all. Obviously that wouldn’t help any situation at all. I also think most parents do their best to remain relatively calm for their child’s sake. I’ve spent almost 4 years in pediatric oncology, operating waiting rooms and had more visits to the emergency department than most, and the majority of parents are doing their utmost to soothe their child and normalise the atmosphere.

I was concerned by the dismissive attitude of this doctor that she needs to ignore the screams of the child / the “vibe” of the parents. If the child is screaming - is that how they usually react? Does this indicate panic? That they’re in more pain than could be reasonably assumed in whatever circumstance/injury? That the child is particularly fearful? I would hope a doctor would get a read from the parent.

For those saying I wouldn’t say this to a man - I absolutely would (though as everyone has pointed out, do it more tactfully). I explained to the doctor that my husband has PTSD from our son’s crying. He is not ever overtly anxious in front of our child when they are going through a procedure or in pain etc., but internally he’s extremely stressed.

I do believe that the neurological changes that occur for women in pregnancy that result in permanent brain changes do shift how the mother reacts to her own child. And male parent brain scans are starting to indicate similar. I know I definitely feel more internal stress when it’s my own child crying than another child. That’s not to say I don’t feel empathy, as most reasonable adults would, but it hits differently when it’s your own child.

Anyway, the tone of this conversation with the doctor wasn’t negative, she went on to state she’s hoping to start a family within the coming year. But I do appreciate my comment was out of order. I did feel like an 85 yr old waggling my finger as I said it.
i just wanted her to realise that she doesn’t know what those “overly” anxious parents are feeling and not to dismiss it. But I didn’t go about that the right way.

i won’t be bringing it up again with her, but i do hope her future patients and parents are met with an ounce more empathy.

And I hope you have more empathy for women who might not be able to have their own children.

I’m a paediatric nurse, I don’t have kids. Although desperately wanted them. I hate it when parents ask me if I have children. I always think they are implying that I can’t be any good if I don’t have kids. I’m sure they don’t mean that. But it’s how it comes across.

Oh god, you’re one of those.

she needs to be able to put aside the anxiety in the room and calm it, not feed into it. yes a good doctor listens to parents, but even the best parents don't know everything. ab over anxious parent can spiral easily - do you want the doctor to fall into that spiral too?

yes, she's obnoxious but she's new to the job and feeling a bit full of herself. worrying the kids got a big head injury and you lot are standing there debating the best way to emotionally be.

and op of a kid comes off their bike and has what might be a serious head injury, best not to move them.

Best Nicu nurse we had had no kids she was tge kindest most loving nurse. Honestly having kids isnt an indicator of anything

No doubt parents have most empathy with their own children, whether visible on scans or not. But as your post makes clear, becoming a parent doesn’t bestow generalised empathy on anyone. So your comment was not only rude, and lacked empathy, it made no sense. Having her own child won’t make her any more or less understanding.

Instead of berating a woman you don’t know, read up on first aid and consider whether moving a child with a head injury is a good idea.

Like the OP, my child has also had cancer and funnily enough, his three favourite nurses and even his favourite play therapist all didn't have children.

I didn't care at all that they didn't have children as they were all amazing with my child during the most difficult time of his life.

@Calmondeck how is your wee one now?

Totally not the point of your op I know!

Oh here we go…. The child was not immobile on the ground. They had leapt to their feet, the blood was gushing down their forehead, and he was staggering around unable to see through the blood.

But I’ll wait for the first aid brigade to berate me

You'll understand when you're a first aider.

That's not what she said though op. She said
"Im so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that [I'm] immune to it. [I] just walk into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

ignoring the 'vibe' is not the same as ignoring the parent or child. It means not getting yourself caught up in the drama while observing everyone and making a calm assessment. Being immune to seeing screaming kids or anxious parents again doesn't suggest not caring about them or having empathy for them, it just means it doesn't personally emotionally impact her as much as it probably did when she started training.

That's totally normal for any professional working in high stakes or traumatic lines of work.

I think you've read your own (very legitimate) experiences of maybe feeling unheard by professionals into what she said but I didn't read it and go there at all. But then I also work in a role that involves vicarious trauma (and am a parent) so maybe I'm seeing a different perspective as to what she meant by that.

@WhatHappenedToYourFurnitureCuz this made me laugh out loud. I understand the sentiment. But what would you have me do to an already moving injured person? Other than make them still and compress the wound?

Exactly this. Excellent post.

This comments wins 😃

"i do hope her future patients and parents are met with an ounce more empathy."

What empathy would you have expected her to demonstrate in this situation that she didn't? What was the "correct" response of a friend of a parent who's child came off their bike and was being tended to by a neighbour?

@givemushypeasachance firstly, to ask what happened, secondly to offer help, and definitely not to launch into a story about seeing this all the time while the child is still in distress. But probably most importantly, it sounds like from other posters that my response was incorrect to move him at all and have him upright. I thought I should elevate the head to help the bleeding, but I’m waiting to hear from the first aiders what I should have done. Perhaps she could have suggested a course of action?

Well personally I'd start off with centering the patient and not saying anything dismissive to them or their carers. There's no need to say anything much about yourself at all, though in such circumstances I would say that I'm a doctor as otherwise people do tend to wonder if you're just a nosey parker getting involved in stuff that doesn't concern you.
I'd probably have said something like "Hey Ben, my name's Suzie and I'm a doctor. I can see you've hurt yourself and you're upset. I'm just going to take a little look at your head so I can help you". Appearing relaxed and confident and using a calm voice whilst acknowledging the child's distress is usually far more effective than announcing that you're terribly experienced in these matters and not over reacting like everyone else here. People who genuinely are experienced and confident rarely have to draw people's attention to the fact.
If the OP's description of events is accurate then I don't think the young doctor handled the situation terribly well at all, but it's probably nothing to do with not being a mother and everything to do with being new to the role and still having a great deal to learn. We all say and do stupid stuff sometimes and hopefully get better with time.

Sounds like she's good under pressure she probably didn't mean it in the way you have interpreted. and her silence in the face of ur comment confirms that.

I am measured about this. On one hand I do think it was unreasonable and rude. And I wonder if perhaps you know that, or you wouldn't be asking. On the other hand (and I'm not a parent) you've clearly endured a great deal and it was a stressful situation. So I'm landing on "yes, it was unreasonable, but I understand why in the heat of the moment you said it." I hope your child is okay.