Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

I think she just used the wrong words .
She ought to have said “ don’t worry , I’m used to seeing this and can remain calm “
I don’t think what you said was very fair at all .

I agree that you shouldn’t have said that OP. I think the fact that she went on to say she was planning to have a family does not make the tone of the conversation any better. I’m also not a mother and have found similar comments really upsetting, and they do stay with you. But you’ve reflected on it and you’re asking if you were unreasonable, so that’s good.

Comments on the Dr’s approach seem pretty harsh. Like others, I can see another interpretation to what she said. - but also yes, she’s young, she’s in the early stages of her career and no doubt she’ll develop as we all do. And I think there’s also another factor here - she wasn’t at work at the time. It’s possible she was feeling relaxed, out with her friend and isn’t yet quite as skilled at stepping into her professional self as she will become.

To be fair, that is exactly what I found with the hospital he was transferred to for his surgery and where he went on to have his chemotherapy. I can't fault that second hospital at all but the first hospital was absolutely woeful, mainly the surgical registrar as nurses repeatedly aired their concerns and the serious incident report noted that the nurses felt dismissed and unheard and then obviously found it incredibly upsetting when he then had a cardiac arrest as a result.

Thanks. I'm sorry that you're part of the same club too.

I think you were both a bit off. A good medical professional should keep a level head, of course, but that doesn't mean they ignore the feelings of patients and next of kin. They stay cool in the midst of it.

She really shouldn't be glib about anxiety, though, patient's or parental. It is an insidious tool for undermining parents -especially mothers- who try to draw professionals' attention to causes for concern.

She was showing a shocking lack of empathy for Doctor, but you reacted rather than responded and YABU to assume she wants to be or will one day be a mother.

Sounds like shes one of those who will be going on strike and asking to be paid £4637369379874 more, while working less hours, so she can vibe a bit more.

Your comment was obnoxious tho.

As a dr you probably do need to become immune to vibes and crying kids and stuff. If you dont develop that detachment you wouldnt be able to do your job well.

Saying "you'll understand when you're a mum" is patronising, obnoxious and insulting. It is belittling her experience and knowledge. It's also making huge judgements about her.

I'd go silent if you said that to me too. Not because I was shocked, thought you had a point or was taking on board with your comment. It would be because I'd be inwardly rolling my eyes and making my own judgements about you.

You were patronising and ridiculous. 'Mothers' don't have special powers or exra empathy. You are not a superhero.

You are very lucky she didn't look you in the eye and say, 'You will understand if you ever manage to qualify to be a doctor'.

Nurse here too, exactly Nurseposter123.

But that’s just one aspect of it. Actually “ignoring the vibe” is of course what is needed to get the job done. However, you need to perceive the vibe to understand what someone is feeling. And you need to empathise with it openly otherwise you’re not a great professional.

@Calmondeck I see where you’re coming from. I have a good friend who is a paediatrician. She says she didn’t really have empathy with parents until she became a parent herself, and that has made her a better children’s doctor. That’s not to say childless/childfree doctors couldn’t make fantastic paediatricians but I agree it was an insensitive thing of her to say in the moment and sounds arrogant, unempathetic and patronising. I can understand why you snapped back at her.

YANBU. I have found medical professionals take me much more seriously as soon as I tell them the child I’m presenting to them is my 2nd. It’s really bad.

That doctor, as you say, is very young. Hopefully with time and experience, she will grow. But I don’t see any potential of growth in you based on your self righteous essay.

I think the parents assume that they become better humans after they had kids. Reality is with time and experience most humans develop more humility and empathy.

I think that’s a very fair point. Perhaps it’s a degree of immaturity on the part of the young doctor rather than lack of her own children, which is why I stressed that I can see doctors without children could still be excellent children’s doctors. But several people have defended the doctor’s comment. Whilst a lack of life experience could excuse her thinking it, I do think it was unnecessarily insensitive to say it in the moment. It doesn’t make OP’s comment great but I think I would have been riled too. Overall, I do agree with you though.

I agree wholeheartedly! Had a midwife (newly qual in her 40’s) recently be very opinionated on some of my upcoming birth choices after some previous trauma and I spared no moment to tell her she couldn’t have those strong opinions if she’d never experienced a shred of what I never hoped to experience again. I understand the fact she may not have been able to herself, but don’t hijack my experience with your own misconceptions. Having a young doctor laughing off anxiety over a child is gross.

Yes you were completely patronising. You have NO idea of her history or life - for all you know she is infertile or has suffered a loss of a child. Don’t ever presume someone’s situation.
I suspect she made a lighthearted glib comment and I think her only error was misjudging the audience.

Sorry I upset you.

It's never OK to use that expression. Never.
So bloody patronising and offensive

😂 😆 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂 well......

Exactly this. You want her to be able to be objective and professional to make her medical decisions, not knee jerk and emotional. Plus that was extremely patronising of you. I work in emergency services and very often hysterical parents only aggravate the situation as when a child sees a parent react the child’s reaction amps up. She was simply saying she’s able to keep a level head due to her professional experience. You need to get over yourself.

Yes you were being unreasonable, this girl is a doctor, she needs the emotional detachment from parental drama.
She needs to see these events through a different perspective bthan yours- surely you can see that?
You should definitely not try and tell her off again,you have been obnoxious enough already.

I've not read the full thread so this might have been addressed.

But if what you said was not on by some standards, her bragging about or ability to stay calm in situations but not reading the room is just being pretty tone deaf. Not a compliment for a professional!

I think OP sounds reasonable.
im always surprised by the lack of compassion on mumsnet. OP has a significant trauma background of her own and this situation must have been very triggering for all of those historic dr interactions.

Well of course. But that is not the fault of the doctor. I think she was clumsily trying to explain that she is able to detach (which she should do).