To think some people on here make too many excuses for parents feeding their kids unhealthy food to the point they become overweight or even obese?

[Giselle374]

I know a lot people are in really difficult situations financially, and the country overall has become harder and harder due to COL.

But I feel uneasy with the way some posts on this seem to imply that being in a hard financial position means unhealthy food almost can't be avoided.

People usually choose to have children, and food is a basic thing. If you didn't wash your child, or clothe them as best as you could, would that be similarly excusable? Arguably food is more important than many other potential areas since cancer and other illnesses are a very real danger if kids are overweight or obese young.

My mother had financial difficulties when I was young: she was a single parent and on minimum wage, and she hated cooking, ate very badly before I was born. But she ensured her meals (porridge, fish, eggs, veg based mostly) were healthy even if they were plain. I was barely ever allowed sugary or processed food. That's one of the things I'm most grateful for.

I do understand families in a depressing situation with few things for the kids to enjoy use food as something enjoyable sometimes
..areas need more resources, green space, libraries etc .

This isn't to deny the challenges of feeding kids healthily. But I think some posts on here lean too far to taking responsibility from the parents,,and I don't think that's helpful.

I’d agree with both of those too, in fairness.

I think the reason I don’t specifically blame my mum, is because now I’m an adult I can acknowledge that she had it tough. She was a single mum of 3, had very limited time and funds, and even less knowledge.

Those reasons will be specific to me, because obviously only I was there.

What I was getting at was that kids becoming social pariahs because they’re fat, isn’t the fault of their parents or themselves for being fat, it’s the fault of the people doing that.

Social exclusion shouldn’t be used as a reason to encourage parents to make better choices for their kids, health and wellbeing should be enough anyway, and personally I don’t teach my kids to care what society thinks they should be.

There’s also a very fine line between acknowledging your child is overweight and doing something about it, and making them feel like shit about it.

It’s a difficult situation to not make even worse when you’re in it, because you want them to lose a bit, or even just eat slightly better, but nobody wants to make them feel not good enough or tell them you’ve got an issue with their size.

We’re supposed to love our kids as they are, and pushing too hard on their weight can give them the polar opposite impression.

No, they don't 'think they eat healthily'. They know fine well that they don't but people enable this victimhood with talk of genes so they don't even try.

WLI sadly seem to be the only fix. Well, that and constant reminders on threads like this that whatever your genes are if you eat less you do indeed lose weight.

Yes, they do. Many people who have been trying to lose weight for years with no success can't understand what they're doing wrong. If they did they would lose weight. Mums feeding their babies processed paste because they can't understand it's bad for them aren't doing it because they don't care about their children, they're doing it because they don't understand. It has been studied time and time again and found that people of all weights consistently underestimate how much they eat and even when they keep food diaries they underestimate their caloric intake by 500 cals a day. They don't think they consume as much as they do. If the labels and posters were enough, this would not be happening. Your definition of "doing enough" is doing what you think is sufficient is and leaving it there regardless of the outcome. My version of "doing enough" is doing as much as you need to get the desired outcome. And labels and posters aren't cutting it.

For the last time. We all know if you eat less you lose weight. The bit people are struggling with is eating less when they are hungry. Having a huge appetite makes it really difficult to do that and sustain it long term. Many things drive appetite, including hormones, genes, contraception, stress, lack of sleep, eating UPFs. Many people lose weight naturally without even trying when you resolve these issues.

You can't understand or accept that people have different hunger levels, and you definitely are unable to understand why despite it being explained to you repeatedly. You think the scientific description of insulin resistance which which 70% of obese adults struggle with is an eating disorder. It couldn't be any clearer that we are talking to someone unable to understand things being explained to them. I'm not banging my head against this brick wall any longer.

However there will be hundreds of people reading this thread who will have learned something about how their bodies work and will go off and read more, learn more and use the information to change their health rather than just beating themselves up for not having enough will power like they have been doing for years. As this information gets out there people will be more empowered to make better choices and work with their bodies and not against them and the next generation will benefit from it. It's just a shame people like you are slowing that down.

'Many people who have been trying to lose weight for years with no success can't understand what they're doing wrong. If they did they would lose weight.'

And yet use WLI, reduce what they consume massively and voila the weight magicly falls all. So what they're doing wrong is eating too much.

That's not the genetic issue. Some people.may genetically have slower metabolism but the genetic part is how difficult or easy it is to manage in an obescogenic environment.

The glp-1 meds help make the genetic playing field more even. You still have to make the right choices but you are not fighting biology as much

Yes we get that. We're all different. My dh for example can eat 3 times the amount I do because his metabolism, energy requirements, size and <checks notes> epigenetics are very different.

If I ate what he did I'd be obese.

See, it's easy to speak simply about these matters. Your enthusiasm and a pp's for medicalising it does not help anyone.

It's normal and ok to feel hungry sometimes. Try that rather than this 'obesogenic environment' enabling.

You need to use smaller words @balabusta

I thought you didnt believe in epigenetics?

Again, how we respond to the obescogenic environment differs genetically. Some people find it mcuh much harder. That's what the scientific evidence shows.

Anecdotally,.I see it with my own children. One of my children has always been much hungrier than the others, much more interested in food. This is from when she was a baby (and all of them were fully breastfed so i had no control) and toddler and through childhood. And as a result she has always been much heavier than her siblings and trending much higher on the bmi percentiles. We've had to watch her portion size in a way we didnt need to do with her siblings.

You know why they differed? Genetics. Their environment was the same but genetics impacted how they interacted with that environment.

Im not sure why established biology is causing so much hostility from you. This is fact, not controversial.

'Again, how we respond to the obescogenic environment differs genetically. Some people find it mcuh much harder. That's what the scientific evidence shows.'

Clearly some find it much much harder. No one disputes they find it hard. We've all being hungry and we've all over indulged, easily done. The point is knowing one's limits. It's all very doable without your constant need to medicalise and take away responsibility, it does not help.

Empower these people stop patting them on head whilst using such terms as obesogenics <not obescogenic, fixed that for you>.

As an aside your dc's appetites vary because they are different people, obviously. As I said mine is different to my dh and also unsurprisingly different to friends and other family. Knowing your limits and appropriate portion size should not be the rocket science you want it to be.

Science says otherwise and I form my opinions based on scientific evidence.
You prefer shaming, I like facts and data.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you have no regard for or understanding of science and no wish to learn

Genetics rather than the fact she simply eats more?

Genetics affect appetite. Hormone levels detected in saliva directly correlates to how much food a person needs to eat to stop feeling hungry.

People with high levels of ghrelin in their saliva need to eat more food to feel satisfied, if they stop eating when other people with lower ghrelin levels have eaten enough to feel full they will still feel hungry. This obviously drives them to eat more because no one can tolerate being permanently hungry even if they know eating to satiety is too many calories for them to maintain a healthy weight.

Insulin levels also affect appetite and weight all have different levels of that too, the more insulin you have in your blood the hungrier you will be and the more you will eat.

True empowerment is not denying these facts are real. True empowerment is educating people that these things exist, why they are making their efforts at maintaining a healthy weight more difficult for them, why they are a barrier to success and how to manage these barriers to work with their biology instead of against it so that they can succeed without struggling like they always have. Because true empowerment is giving people the knowledge and the tools to change instead of just pretending there's no solvable reason for their difficulties and letting them struggle like a salmon swimming upstream for years and getting nowhere. Then labelling it a personal responsibility failure when they inevitably fail. That's actually cruel.

Not shaming, empowering. Teaching people thar they can indeed help themselves and be healthy regardless of 'ecogenetics', 'obesogenics', 'hormones', 'insulin resistance' 'hidden upfs' < on clearly shit food>, etc etc etc.

It is a fact that calories in and energy used should be in a similar ballpark.

Feeling hungry will not kill you. Obesity might.

You just don't understand.

Empowering people is giving them the knowledge to fix their problems. Pretending they don't exist isn't empowering, it's leaving people to struggle and it's cruel.

It not being their fault isn't the same as there not being anything they can do about it. Naming the problem and giving them the tools to fix it is empowering. There are lots of health conditions that people get through no fault of their own but once you have them there are things in your control to improve your outcome and long term prognosis.

Look at it like this. Arthritis is real. It's not your fault you get arthritis. But once diagnosed with it if you keep active and eat anti inflammatory foods and take anti inflammatory medications you can continue being active and healthy. Giving this knowledge to people empowers them because it puts them in control of their own outcome. If you were to pretend arthritis was not real and irrelevant, and you told people they just needed to take personal responsibility, own up to being a lazy fuck and use that shame to fuel the determination to do as much exercise as everyone else who doesn't have arthritis and when they inevitably fail tell them it's their own lack of personal responsibility made them fail that is not only cruel, it is disempowering. You are taking away their control of their outcome by withholding information from them that would help them make better choices.

Insulin resistance exists. It's real. 70% of obese people have it. It's not their fault they have it. That doesn't mean they are powerless to change it. It can be treated, and managed. You can't treat and manage something you don't know you have. When they know what foods will work with their body and which ones work against their body they can make the choices that will benefit them. Telling a person they have insulin resistance and this is what foods they need to do to improve it, and then they will find losing weight easier than they have been finding it in the past is setting them up for success.

There are ways to mitigate hunger hormones if you have an excess of them. You can change your hormone levels by sleeping more, or loading your calories in different times of the day. There are things you can do to combat these problems, if you have them. That's empowering people to take control of their own health. Just pretending it's not a problem then shaming them for having no self control isn't empowering, it's cruel.

That's the problem here. You don't understand that not your fault, and not your responsibility to fix are not mutually exclusive. They can and do exist together.

We just disagree.

And tbh all your sneeery comments about 'big words' 'being uneducated' 'simpletons' don't really show you in a good light or in a position to be lecturing anyone.

Aa you've pointed out we are all very different, some have actual medical problems which means they suffer and have to adapt their lives to cope. That's fine, that's life. We all do what we can to optimise our health. Well, we should. No excuses.

Clearly we disagree on helping people instead of shaming them. Your sneery comments about gluttony, gorging and victim hood don't make you look good either. You haven't covered yourself in glory here or endeared anyone to your views.

Your views about society having no responsibility for children's health and it being up to their parents, if they do bad job then that's too sad tells all we need to know about you and your views.

Honestly, I won't lose any sleep over your opinion of me.

You seem to be making things up now. Of course society in particular parents have a responsibility for children's health and they can demonstrate this by reading the labels and stopping the excuses.

What are ecogenetics? Or are you just mocking science?

Obviously if calories in are greater than calories out, weight gain occurs.

However, its not that simple. Hunger and appetite are hormone controlled. And the urge to eat is one of the strongest that there is. Great for you that you can control it, you got lucky. Others are not as fortunate.

I said already that this doesn't mean there.isnt personal responsibility and agency. Plenty of scope for that. But we also need to look to the environment as well and change that. For example, how can we make it safer for children to play outside? If we are concerned about children's health, lack of physical activity is a greater health risk than obesity - it's healthier to be an active obese child than an inactive normal weigh one.

I most certainly did not 'get lucky'. I've had a serious health issue and coped with many life challenges as have a lot of people. Being hungry occasionally and not overeating has not even been in the top 10.

'Obviously if calories in are greater than calories out, weight gain occurs'

I knew you'd get there in the end.

'For example, how can we make it safer for children to play outside'

We teach them. For example we say 'don't play footie on busy roads', a bit like don't eat McDs and Greggs every day.

It's parenting.

A really important topic. I also agree with others who have said it’s not a cost thing as I think you can eat healthily on a budget. I think the shift in society of both parents working, not just Dad at work and not having a full time stay at home mum means parents are more frazzled / rushing around and looking for quick fix snack options. I think ignorance is a big factor but think there are other factors. My nephew had spells of being chubby growing up, I often thought it was the situation of being looked after by various family members individually so no one knew what else he’d eaten that day/week. Nan would give over the top treats whenever she saw him once or twice a week, but so would Grandma, so would his Mum all as a way of treating him/spoiling him, there way of showing love. Dad would then often buy him a hot sausage roll. With our toddler, it’s just the one Grandma who is giving treats(two chocolate biscuits) approx once a week, which we allow. I take fruit with us too. If our toddler is hungry before tea, the best thing we do is to have veggie sticks on a plate to munch on and she will eat some of those. We always have a little fruit bowl out that she can help herself too, mainly bananas, satsumas, apples, pears. Not the best cook here but do ensure our toddler eats a healthy nutritional diet and gets her 5 a day. I do use a fair bit of frozen/tinned veg. I only now look at food packaging so much because of being a parent and I still can’t believe how much sugar is added to products marketed at kids. It really pisses me off. I think it’s really irresponsible of supermarkets/brands that make these products. Once you have figured out the healthiest of each food though it does then make your weekly food shop a lot easier. There are instagram pages dedicated just about healthy swaps for kids, which are quite good. Recently I was trying to figure out the healthiest ice cream/ice lollies to buy and the only brand that I could seem to find that had make healthier ones, our supermarket don’t stock so I’ve realised it’s best just making our own equivalent and just freezing some Greek yogurt and puréed fruit into lolly moulds. I notice it seems to irritate my own mother (who is overweight and probably hasn’t eaten a vegetable in forever) when I give my child a healthy plate of food and she often says things like err yuck to my toddler, which is just odd. My toddler just thinks it’s funny though.

I agree that there's a biological reason for obesity rather than just dismissing it as pure greed. And I find it very curious that in the last 15 years more than half the population seems to have got fat.

It's not just about food quality. All I used to eat was pasta and I weighed 8 stone all my life. Then I got put on an anti- psychotic and was starving all the time and went up to 14.5 stone. But I also had a very slowed metabolism and had hypothyroidism at one point. I was eating about 2300 kcal per day. I've stopped the meds, risking an episode, while I wait to get referred back to a psychiatrist and try to work out a better solution for my overall health, because I would have continued to put on weight month after month and it never would have stopped and I was about to develop diabetes. It's been about 6 or 8 weeks and I weigh 13.7 stone, eating one half to a third less than I did before without any effort or hunger.

Money does come into eating healthy. I'm on a low income and don't have a car so I have to meet a £40 minimum spend to get food delivered, and it also just works out more expensively the more frequent you do your shop. I shop for 2 weeks at a time and so previously was buying a lot of £1 frozen ready meals from iceland. Have you seen the price of orange juice ?

Now that I need to buy a lot less food however I'm buying those expensive Higgidy quiches and pastries from Waitrose and freezing them so most of my food at least has vegetables in it. I'm spending about £90 per fortnight on healthier food now. But again that's because I'm not so hungry and can buy less of it.