To think some people on here make too many excuses for parents feeding their kids unhealthy food to the point they become overweight or even obese?

[Giselle374]

I know a lot people are in really difficult situations financially, and the country overall has become harder and harder due to COL.

But I feel uneasy with the way some posts on this seem to imply that being in a hard financial position means unhealthy food almost can't be avoided.

People usually choose to have children, and food is a basic thing. If you didn't wash your child, or clothe them as best as you could, would that be similarly excusable? Arguably food is more important than many other potential areas since cancer and other illnesses are a very real danger if kids are overweight or obese young.

My mother had financial difficulties when I was young: she was a single parent and on minimum wage, and she hated cooking, ate very badly before I was born. But she ensured her meals (porridge, fish, eggs, veg based mostly) were healthy even if they were plain. I was barely ever allowed sugary or processed food. That's one of the things I'm most grateful for.

I do understand families in a depressing situation with few things for the kids to enjoy use food as something enjoyable sometimes
..areas need more resources, green space, libraries etc .

This isn't to deny the challenges of feeding kids healthily. But I think some posts on here lean too far to taking responsibility from the parents,,and I don't think that's helpful.

I do remember the change I. The 90s when packs of crisps and chocolate bars got super sized. The shift when greed was normalised. I remember walking everywhere as a kid. Mum even saving bus fare into town, so we would walk into town and bus back. Walking in the 70s/80s was just so normal. We walked everywhere and were rarely tired by it. Food wasn't amazing until the 80s mostly functional. But wow I remember my first taste of a McCain's pizza and they were tiny and a portion was half of one in our house with salad and about 6 homemade chips!

What do you think caused that shift?

Not aimed at me but I'll answer. The shift has been caused by the normalisation and medicalisation of overeating, we've seen it on this very thread. It's all genes and hormones now.

That and the availability of food 24/7.

No, the shift in this scenario is that it’s been normalised and medicalised. That’s not the cause of the shift. What has caused it to become normalised? Something must have done. People don’t just wake up one day on a whim and start normalising and medicalising over eating.

Why would you think you can eat the exact same food as someone else and not gain weight if its too much for your calorie requirements?

Where do you get the idea we can or should all eat the same?

Of course its metabolism, you eat to it, not in spite of it, thats the point others are making.

No one has said any different. If you eat more than you need of course you'll put on weight. The point is there are layers and layers of reasons one may eat more than they need. But the upshot is, its more than you need. Some of that is exacerbated by societal changes and choice.

I hate to be that person but I think a lot of it is an Americanisation of our culture. I think that there is a financial trick which is played about 'value for money' so you can get ALL this food for x amount, massive roll, side of this, side of that, big drink for x amount. Supersize up to add chips or whatnot

It doesnt cost the food retailer much more to make it look massive, but it costs you the consumer more, conversely, because you think you're getting a bargain because by paying 2 quid more than the bog standard sarnie, you're getting ALL this food, what great value for money. But the excess is refined crap, which is cheap as chips (no pun intended), it looks massive in the bag, but is either very emptyish bread/something with batter on it to look massive etc

Its about ripping off consumers by making them order more and eat more, pay more but it not costing the restaurant/cafe/pub much more because its volumious carbs.

Food retailers are in the business of making us overbuy, its their business model. They dont really care if we eat it, but of course we're going to eat it.

Supermarkets have done a number on us by offering XL packets of this, or family sized packets of that, or variety packets of this and that (I was trying to find a small pack of mince the other day, only 250g, the price was through the roof compared to the packs of 900g (just an example off the top of my head, obvoiusly this is not junk food). So you buy the big sizes of things, and they're there in the cupboard, readily available. And we have been conditioned to snack, its a new culture that I dont remember 50 years ago.

Ive done the sums on a number of threads and wont bore people with it again but it literally only takes a few hundred calories excess a day for someone to put on a stone a year. Thats a couple of biscuits or a milky coffee at Costa or equivalent. Or a couple of slices of toast with something. No one needs to binge eat to put on vast quantaties of weight.

I think it came from the US with films TV shows more fast food widely available. I think companies marketed things and we bought them - not everyone obviously.
Similarly to kids watching YouTube now and wanting US candy .
I think also as we became healthier and bigger we got bugger appetites some post war families were huge and didn't have much food then smaller Families more food then junk got marketed to us and we've took it. Supermarkets pile it high.
And cars I've driven since 1994. Going for a walk is something to do not something you do...

I probably can't say this without sounding like a snob. But I am from a family whose parents knew about nutrition and fed me a good diet. I still ended up obese but that's another story!

I am from a privileged background, not a rich one but I have been to university, done two degrees, lived with lots of different people and been around people from much higher social statuses than me, the same, and lower and I have noticed a remarkable difference.

My last two relationships over the past few years were with people who were from a much 'lower' social standing if you will, than me. I don't actually think I am a snob, they were or appeared to be nice people and I had no qualms about dating them.

Both of them had been brought up to eat total crap, continued to eat total crap, and although they didn't have their own children I was around enough to see that the children in their families (their nieces, nephews, great niece/nephews, step children, friends children etc etc) were also fed lots of crap. UPF everything. Constant snacks. They were from impoverished areas with a good sense of community so I saw a lot of other people's kids in the times I was around them too. Everyone ate lots of crap! Seldom saw the toddlers without a sugary drink in their hand.

My most recent relationship, she was reasonably intelligent in comparison to the one before that, who was not so much. Couldn't spell, difficulty communicating, socially awkward, didn't understand most things (we couldn't talk about politics, nutrition, world affairs, name any subject that wasn't football or TV shows) she hadn't read any books, very simple taste in things, very stuck in her ways and her own little world. Most things I cooked, she had never even heard of them. I asked her to pick me up some butterbeans from a supermarket, didn't know what they were. Hadn't heard of sugarsnap peas. Didn't know what stuffed vine leaves were.

I know it is a tiny snapshot, but for both of them it was 'class' rather than intelligence. Following their parents' protocol, going along with what everyone else in their social circle did. I think people of that sort of background, are more attached, more close knit with their communities, than those who are from a different background.

When I was younger a girlfriend of a friend approached me as had heard I was a good cook and wanted some tips to lose weight and be healthier, I remember her actually not knowing what a lentil was, let alone how to cook them.

Some people who have maybe not socialised with people who are from a background beyond their comprehension, do not take these things into account. It's fine telling someone that lentil soup is cheaper to make than chicken nuggets, or that it is easy to make hummus and feed it with crudites and and most kids will quite like it if they're introduced to it rather than nuggets! But that person may have never heard of it. Their sense of community tends to be a lot stronger, they are together with other families, in and out of each other's houses, kids get fed at whoevers' house they are at. It's not easy to make a switch when your lives are like that.

Just thinking back again, if you went for a sandwich in a tea room or cafe or something, you would get a sandwich. On standard bread (whether fresh or packaged bread) but not hulking great hunks of bread. Standard filling, might have a 'salad garnet' on the side, just for appearances really.

Then that moved to thicker bread, thicker fillings, more sloppy mayo fillings, multi fillings. Then dressing on the salad. Then a handful of crisps, but just a handful

Then the handful of crisps got bigger, then they were replaced with chips, then coleslaw turns up on the side. Then the bread is ciabatta, then thick sourdough. Suddenly a sandwich turns into something enormous. And very nice thank you, no one is going to turn it down are they.

Can you imagine the outrage if someone was literally served a sandwich these days. Just a sandwich. They would think they're hard done by.

Most people (who aren’t calorie counting) eat to their appetite, not their required calories.

I don’t know many who know their TDEE, I know some who don’t even know what one is.

I know mine, I’m on a diet. But my mother for example, wouldn’t have a clue.

If we’re saying that everyone should eat in a calorie deficit, we could do with some education on what that is.

Well, at the risk of sounding like a broken record but you did ask, what has caused it to be normalised is self declared experts telling everyone it is not their fault it's their genes and their hormones and those pesky upfs.

Once you take away responsibility from those with bad habits it's a free for all. Bit like alcoholics, it's a disease and they can't help it. Yes, they can.

I dont think everyone should eat in a calorie deficit!!! People would shrink away to nothing if that happened.

We should know our requirements, appetite is a nebulous thing, as shown on this very thread (and others).

Many people dont even recognise when they've had enough either, food is nice, you want to keep eating it. We dont eat for fuel.

People dont want to consider calories, thread after thread shows that. People get upset if you remind them that the bog standard 'women need 2k calories' is likely to put weight on a lot of women.

Thats their choice though.

How do you know when you’ve had your requirements, if you don’t know what that means and your body is telling you it’s still hungry?

That’s a really nice idea, only eating what you need, but without any tangible idea of what that means, it’s really not very helpful?

Apparently you have to accept that being hungry is normal and it's a myth that you can feel full after a meal without over eating .

Only greedy people eat until they're full!

Luddite26,"food wasn't amazing till the 80s,it was functional".. seriously ! Casseroles cooked on nans Rayburn,suet puddings, everything home made right down to the jam, which incidentally they went fruit picking for first. I remember my first taste of pizza, I thought it was revolting, still do.

Feeling hungry is normal occasionally and you can feel satisfied after a meal without gorging.

You seem to have some very disordered thinking about food, do you have a history of an ED? Obviously fine if you don't want to share.

Eating disorder 😂

There's nothing funny about eating disorders.

I just said its your calorie requirements, its a simple calculation that any internet search will give you

Weight, age, height, activity.

Ball park figure x number of calories. Try to stick to it. Not easy, particularly for those of us who like eating more than we need. Particularly if you eat things that prompt you to eat more things.

But thats it

What will be shouted down is CICO. People think if you just eat 'healthy' (whatever definition they choose to put on that) you'll be ok. I am living proof that you can get very overweight on good, home cooked foods. Portion sizes.

There's something funny about uneducated people thinking they can diagnose one without even knowing a person

Who is uneducated? You do know personal attacks are against talk guidelines?

You seem so very angry I'm trying to work out what is behind it all and wondered if you're projecting and have an ED. If not fine, but it isn't anything to lol about.

That may have been the case for you and it sounds idyllic, and, in truth my family were amazing bakers and my grandad came from a farming family so was a huge provider of home grown everything. But there were masses of people living in poverty, large families where children were often left to fend for themselves. Yes you stood in a queue with animal carcasses hanging next to you to buy fresh meat and cooked from scratch. You didn't go in anywhere and buy a meal all ready to go. Spaghetti was exotic. Fish and chips were the only takeaway treat in many places.
There's food everywhere now. It's in everyone's face. An out of control industry.

I'm angry because the ignorance of people like you who think fat people are nothing but greedy means that progress in making changes in society that will prevent the next generation having the same problems to the current ones do so much slower. It means that the two thirds of the population that are already overweight don't get the information or tools they need to help themselves as easily as they could because too many people think if they are simply ashamed enough of being overweight and fond some self control somewhere they won't be fat anymore. That self control is obviously theirs alone to find despite their biology making difficult for them. It's this archaic attitude that is making it more difficult for everyone to improve their health.

People need to be educated in what UPFs do to their bodies so they don't feed a load of it to their kids and set them up for a lifetime of obesity with a ruined metabolism but the time they're 16. Denying any of this information as even true and dismissing it as unnecessary means that the information doesn't get out there and the mistakes repeat and compound in the next generation.

There are people far more intelligent than you, than most people choosing what to put on their plates, being paid eye watering amounts of money to ensure you make bad choices because it makes them more money. They are using your own biology against you and denying it is even happening or a problem and just declaring a personal failing means this information doesn't get out to people. If people don't know what's being done to them they can't fight it.

Your attitude harms people, it's harming the next generation who need to understand the food environment they are living in to protect themselves.

It's also incredibly irritating when people won't accept facts, think science is made up and clearly don't comprehend what you're trying to explain to them.

Oh and it's offensive the way you talk about overweight people in terms of gorging and being greedy. You don't need to gorge or be greedy to end up overnight. They're just nasty stereotypes.

You also make ridiculous claims like everyone has the same appetite and being full after a meal is a myth, when several posters who are not overweight have told you they feel full after a meal.

There's a book called always hungry, I can't remember who by. But it's truly eye opening and explains fully what I've been trying to explain to you.

I’m quite aware that’s it, but:

1. That’s not accessible or useable for everyone

2. We shouldn’t be calorie counting for or with kids, which is what this thread is about

By no means do I think we should fill them full of crap either, but there’s no way we should be teaching children how to track calories.

I know my TDEE, couldn’t tell you my sons. Not interested in it, he’s 9 years old.

Feed them as healthily as we can, teach them good lifestyle choices and give them plenty of opportunity for activity, help them develop healthy relationships with food and nutrition.

The rest is for adulthood IMO.

I do have a history of ED, and I’d thank you to not throw diagnoses of them around at strangers on the internet.