to think it’s inconsiderate to leave a lifetime of clutter for your kids to deal with when you die?

[wirey]

My parents are in their 70s, both in good health, fully capable, still active. This isn’t about illness, frailty or anything like that.

They have a 5-bedroom house absolutely rammed with stuff. I’m talking decades of things such as old paperwork, clothes, random items, things they haven’t used in years (some of it honestly feels like it’s been there 30–40 years untouched).

I’ve gently raised it a few times and offered to help them sort through it. Not in a pushy way, just suggesting we could do a bit at a time. Every time the response is basically “you can deal with it when we’re gone.”

I find that really unfair. It’s not even about the physical effort (although that will be huge), it’s the emotional side too. Having to go through a whole house of someone else’s lifetime possessions while grieving is a lot. Plus trying to work out what’s important, what isn’t, what can be thrown away without guilt.
I get that it’s their house and their stuff, and they can live how they want. I’m not trying to control that. But equally, it feels like they’re knowingly leaving a massive job for someone else when they don’t have to.

I’m not expecting minimalism or a spotless house, just a bit of consideration in not leaving everything untouched for decades and then handing it over as a problem later.

AIBU to think that’s selfish?

I have reduced my own possessions by 75% as not to leave a mess behind for DH and my DC.

Notwithstanding the hoarding/clutter, your DC getting some hand me downs to take to uni makes complete sense. DD1 is starting Uni this year and she has already requested some of her grandmother's stuff to take because it has happy memories (MIL died a few months ago).

@Leavelingeringbreath Although you thought your relative was unlikely to have any money, you weren't sure, and so took the decision to go through his things in the hope of finding some. And you did. It was your decision.

Leaving a mess is selfish but it's often more complicated than that. Your relative wasn't able to enjoy his money which is sad for him.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but I have two sets of friends who discovered large quantities of cash deliberately hidden in their parent's houses when clearing out. One set found about £3000 hidden but the other set found about £25,000. The money was in the backs of drawers, under wardrobes etc.
I bet house clearance workers never hand over cash they find!

My FIL hid money around his house. Luckily DH cleared the house himself.

On the contrary, I’ve cleared my parents, and two sets of grandparents, Mil and Fil’s! I’m the family non sentimental gets on with it person, so I've been executor to more than my fair share.

Bank accounts and financial stuff can be found online these days. It’s a year or two since I’ve had to do it but for a small fee any current and old accounts, stocks and shares, premium bonds, pensions etc can be found electronically. You don’t need the bit of paper anymore, but admittedly it’s easier if you have them to hand.

My Mum said the same. It’s taken over two years for us to clear the place. The motto seemed to be “never throw anything out.” The loft and garage were full of broken furniture, old garden tools and furniture. A dining table from the old house that seated 14 which wouldn’t even go in the new, much smaller one. A dinner service for 24 and a buffet set for 40. I was in tears when we finally got to the loft and saw how rammed it was. I’ve kept very little and it’s all going in a skip.

I can’t imagine not wanting to make my kids’ lives easier. Both in this world and after I’m gone.

You could play along with the uni Idea, and just take it all to the tip instead. It's a harmless little white lie.

My DF was exactly the same. He complained bitterly about having to deal with his and my DMs parents’ estates, plus his DBro’s. And while he did put his financial affairs in good order, the clearing of his house was a completely different matter and very hard work.

Before he died he had increasingly poor health and my DSis and I used his hospital stays to remove very out of date food and medicines from his cupboards- and got it in the neck when he returned from hospital to fresh food and paracetamol! 😂

We were shocked by how much dusty broken stuff there was. We even offered to take boxes of stuff that needed to go to the tip - think scraps of mouldy carpet and curtains - and he still refused to let us. Would have involved no effort on his part. When we finally got everything cleared after his death and the house sold, it was such a relief and both me and my DSis feel so much better in ourselves knowing it’s all dealt with. And we did keep a few sentimental pieces, so we didn’t just chuck everything.

However, we’ve kept the decluttering up and have looked hard at our own homes so our DCs don’t have to do it.

Even if there is a large owned house, OPs parents could have taken out equity release (lifetime mortgage) and there will be no money upon its sale. But the OP will still need to clear the property for the finance company before the house can be sold to clear the debt.

Yep! My Nan had downsized so it was reduced a bit but it still took weeks to sort. She hadn't put all the important paperwork in one place together so every single thing needed sorting really carefully so we didn't miss anything. Every drawer was full to bursting with invoices, old cards, letters

People are saying it can be done in a day when they have no idea. Possibly some houses can be done this quickly if it is in order but not the homes of hoarders.

No, but I know that the average legacy that leaves a large house with 5 bedrooms and 2 garages will be very net positive even after deductions like solicitors.

Because large houses are generally worth quite a bit of money.

Of course in your specific case your parents might be in the small minority who have a large house but a net negative estate, they may have lifetime mortgage or rent a house, or have huge debts.

In which case you are free to walk away from administering anything to do with their estate when they die.

Even the houses that look tidy to visitors can be a nightmare to clear as the lofts and EVERY cupboard can be rammed.

I took 14 bags of clothes to the charity shop - that alone took a day!

YABU and YANBU. You are not being unreasonable to expect paperwork in order and accessible. You are being unreasonable to expect someone to live their older years in a manner of your choosing.

When my DM died, she left a room full of wool that went to a local college for textiles. (There was, I acknowledge, one broken toaster, but I am not worried about that.) I intend to keep reading as long as possible, so my many, many books are staying. DH points out that I will probably meet the Grim Reaper with a cry of "just one more chapter...). Inheritance arrangements can include that skip.

Leave people to live the life they choose for as long as possible.

You are being unreasonable to expect someone to live their older years in a manner of your choosing

By suggesting I get rid of broken appliances?

In my seventies and DH and I emptied an accumulation of 40+ years of stuff from our loft. I was determined not to leave it to my DC to sort having done it when M died.
consulted dc and gave them their stuff.
it was actually easier than I thought and now all that’s in the loft are xmas decs and photos.
Maybe a subtle approach of just checking if some of my stuff is in the loft etc might help to get the ball rolling.
It could be that they find it just overwhelming.

Charges for belonging removal/disposal should come out of the estate anyway, in the same way funeral costs do.

I look upon such charges as reasonable costs for tidying up peoples affairs at their end of life (like solicitors and funeral costs).

It seems most people look on them as "their money" to inherit and parents should live a lifestyle that they don't want to in order that their relatives can inherit more.

You have no idea what certain things or trinkets mean to people. I accept that it looks like mindless hoarding but certain things can mean some things to people in a lot of ways. You just don't know, do you?

interestingly my MiL has just sorted out all of her bakeware today bless her. At 87 she had reduced down to two cake tins and one loaf tin. She then ‘attacked’ all of her cookbooks which she reduced to a quarter of her collection. We spent an hour talking about her favourite books and recipes which was lovely but she wants to let go of it all because the stuff is just collecting dust and unused.

Some stuff has gone to charity shops and a load to the tip. I accepted a small cake tin and an old baking book which had some interesting recipes I will try including her favourite sticky ginger and date cake.

We all have way too much stuff & clutter. We are grateful that in-laws are sorting stuff. FiL has scanned loads of photos for his sons to access. They just want to make life easier when the time comes which is a great approach and very caring.

Gentle encouragement @wirey is the way to go

Lucky you with a single broken toaster. My DF had about 30 years of obsolete electronics stuffed in his loft. It took a whole weekend to bring everything down and several van loads to take it to the tip for responsible disposal (rather than just using a skip for everything to go to landfill).

Books were fine (and all checked for useful stuff hidden inside) but that took another weekend to tie up into bundles and then take to the local charity shops (most would only take so much stuff as they didn’t have space).

YANBU OP.

I have done A LOT of clearing for older relatives over the years and there is plenty more to come. It is simply not as straightforward as getting a clearance company to sort it out.

It's a slightly different point but looking at the broader question of preparing for end of life, I do think we have a responsibility to think about it and not leave it to others to deal with. DM who is closer to 90 than 80 has always reacted very badly to any questions about what she would like to happen when she dies. I finally persuaded her to write a will during covid (years after I'd written my own) and, judging by the comments on this thread a lot of people would have deemed that very insensitive. But she now has dementia and would be incapable of writing one so I'm v glad she did it back then because it means that wider family members who she wanted to remember in her (albeit small) estate are now in there. If I had left it to her to arrange, nothing would have happened. In the past, I tried gently to ask whether she'd like to be buried or cremated when she dies and she acted as if I was being incredibly gloomy but the reality is we all have to think about this stuff and I do think it's irresponsible to leave it to people we love to have to work it all out on our behalf. I'll have to make that call when the time comes and I'd so much rather just be properly grieving for my mum and know I'm respecting her wishes than be guessing what she wants and stressing about getting it wrong. Provided I don't suddenly become ill and die, I do plan to make sure I have some kind of 'when I die' folder to make life easy for my family and also thin out my own belongings so that my DC don't have to do it.

I also think that more often than not it is women who end up doing the clearing out. Somehow my DB has managed to dodge all of it over the years - it always falls to me.

I don't think that nagging someone about clearing clutter can in any way be compared with suggesting that somebody needs to write a will.

It is simply not as straightforward as getting a clearance company to sort it out.

It really is. What do you think charities do when people at the other end of the country leave everything to them? People in a foreign country when a great great aunt they didn't know leaves her property to her next of kin?

The complication is whether you care about keeping any of the stuff or care about how much money it's going to raise.

And if push comes to shove you can always simply refuse the legacy.

You can't pay someone else to take the emotional burden of the death away from you but you certainly can avoid the hassle of physically dealing with the legacy if you don't want that.