to think it’s inconsiderate to leave a lifetime of clutter for your kids to deal with when you die?

[wirey]

My parents are in their 70s, both in good health, fully capable, still active. This isn’t about illness, frailty or anything like that.

They have a 5-bedroom house absolutely rammed with stuff. I’m talking decades of things such as old paperwork, clothes, random items, things they haven’t used in years (some of it honestly feels like it’s been there 30–40 years untouched).

I’ve gently raised it a few times and offered to help them sort through it. Not in a pushy way, just suggesting we could do a bit at a time. Every time the response is basically “you can deal with it when we’re gone.”

I find that really unfair. It’s not even about the physical effort (although that will be huge), it’s the emotional side too. Having to go through a whole house of someone else’s lifetime possessions while grieving is a lot. Plus trying to work out what’s important, what isn’t, what can be thrown away without guilt.
I get that it’s their house and their stuff, and they can live how they want. I’m not trying to control that. But equally, it feels like they’re knowingly leaving a massive job for someone else when they don’t have to.

I’m not expecting minimalism or a spotless house, just a bit of consideration in not leaving everything untouched for decades and then handing it over as a problem later.

AIBU to think that’s selfish?

I have reduced my own possessions by 75% as not to leave a mess behind for DH and my DC.

I think it's interesting that the OP treats her parents as some sort of conjoined unit whose joint death will inconvenience her.

No consideration given to the possibility of her parents downsizing whilst they are both alive, or selling up to release funds for care costs or 1 parent downsizing when widowed. All of those will need the house to be cleared, almost certainly using professional house clearers to remove unwanted and unnecessary furniture.

I think OP is unreasonable and lacks empathy.

Both my husband's parents did.

Landlord's problem. Do you really think that in the case of an insolvent tenant that the landlord has any legal or practical recourse against the deceased tenant's relatives?

If the tenant left enough for there to be a need for probate or Confirmation the landlord could claim the cost of clearance against the deceased's estate.

I bet you’ve got a loft full of Star Wars figures or something similar.

OP has not mentioned one thing about not considering her parents downsizing etc. Why would you assume the OP hasn’t?

It’s common for reluctant downsizers to cram contents into a smaller house and actually not part with much even when they do agree to a move.

Yet no one gives a shit at the end. I’ve never heard of anyone on their deathbed say “Make sure you give Royal Doulton Fox with Stolen Goose, to our Barry”

seriousspicey267It's a pity you have to resort to such a pathetic insult rather than construct a coherent argument.

You're correct - the OP is fixating on the inconvenience she will face when her parents die. She hasn't bothered even mentioning the other scenarios because she's fixated on how inconvenient her parents' death will be.

Her points about "no inheritance"and" no will" are incoherent. If there is no will and at the time of the last death one of her parents still owns the house then the Court will appoint an administrator (in Scotland an Executor Dative) on the application of a beneficiary to allow the estate to be distributed to the beneficiaries in intestacy.

If the OP will find instructing solicitors and professional clearers (she could even ask the solicitor to arrange that) too taxing and too much of strain she's free to refuse her share. She can't be forced to accept an inheritance or be forced to do anything about the house.

Given how inconsiderate she thinks her parents are, declining her share on intestacy is probably the best option- then she won't have anything to worry about.

Are you jealous of all who might get an inheritance?

You are being ridiculous. You might find it easy to chuck away your life but most people don’t. By your token most of the population have mental health problems.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Are you incapable of replying without resorting to insults?

I explained what happens in the case of an intestate estate. It's OP's choice if she wants to get involved in the administration of the estate or not. The cost of clearing the house is a debt against the estate, not the OP personally. If she doesn't want to oversee the clearance the administrator of the estate can arrange it.

Why won’t they give permission? Im sure there’s is a way of asking that gets the answer you want. Just keep trying.

My parents' belongings were a source of comfort and memories to them - a link to cherished family members who had died, family history etc. I know many of the stories attached to each item. Who am I to have told them their precious items should be disposed of?

I am currently clearing through at least three generations of belongings and whilst it is hard going, amongst the sadness, there is also joy in remembering why these items are still here. It is an insight into times long gone and some of it is fascinating.

The parents have repeatedly said they won't clear out their clutter nor accept help in doing so and won't get important documents together.

Your argument is they will actually do this if they choose to move house?

Well yes, they might change their minds but OP is working under the assumption that they're being truthful when they say they won't and they see it as a job for her.

I think it is selfish, but I guess the urge to keep things and the attachment to things is so strong for some people.
I am actively trying to reduce my stuff and sort my paperwork. I'm systematically going through everything including the loft.
It's not just to reduce the burden on my children, but also to remove the burden on myself as I get older.
If I find myself less mobile, need carers, or need to move into a tiny space I don't want to be having to deal with that when I have less energy and more aches and pains.
Once my "affairs are in order" I can go about enjoying my life and I know I'll feel a lot lighter and better prepared for it.

look through it all briefly. If there is anything you want to keep for whatever reason remove it from there. Get a clearance company in to get rid of the rest.

I understand where you’re coming from, from experience.

Would your parents respond better to a practical reason rather than considering emotions like grief and difficulty? How would they react to you laying out what your employers special leave provisions are
eg “I get x days to do everything inc plan the funeral, so that’s … etc How would you plan this?”

Your argument is they will actually do this if they choose to move house?

No. It just struck me that all the OP is concerned about is how inconvenient it will be for her to deal with when they die. Had she mentioned that there is need now, for her parents' benefit, to clear the house, but they won't do it, that's a completely different ball game.

DM has a large, chaotic, hoarded house. It has soured my relationship with her because she hasn't been able to travel to me in about the past 15 years, so I have to go to her and smell the fag smoke and cat pee amonia carpets and perch on the long-broken furniture that she will not clear out after decades.

She half-heartedly talked the talk about downsizing in her 50s and 60s but always had an excuse not to and was always unrealistic about where she would go, but she just ended up hemmed in by the vast, overwhelming quantity of stuff.

Being pragmatic, her bedroom is the room most likely to contain things of value, sentimental or things like jewellry. There are some rooms that will just need extensive skip treatment. Some rooms probably need multiple skips due to the quanitity of crap and duplicate discarded furniture built up over the decades. There are rooms where there is no path through because of the density of the hoard.

A major common problem with hoarders is that they like to stash valuables away "safely" in obscure places because they fear theft and they easily lose track of where they put things so it ends up jumbled in other stuff. Also the scale of hoards and issues like poor airflow leads to degradation through damp and pests such as moths, so what was once valued ends up worthless ruined and unsanitary.

It has affected her quality of life. The house is unpleasant to visit. It's hard for her to move around in. She can't maintain or decorate it because of the stuff in the way so the 45 year old carpets are now beyond threadbare through age and wear and tear on specific pathways round the stuff and broken furniture. Her mobility isn't great and the house was not ideal for elderly living in the first place.

In nearly 35 years, DM hasn't let go of any of DF's things so all that is still there buried away with a lot of memories to stir up.

It's the ultimate in procrastination. Defer it until you're out of the equation and the next generation has to take action and face the aftermath.

Another emotional layer with a hoarder is that you'll be defying their wishes by clearing out when the inevitable does come to pass. It's just reality that no one is immortal.

I'm no minimalist, but I hope at least that my house is orderly enough to distinguish the valuable from what needs disposing of which will be the majority. I do clear out, and what I do keep that is sentimental is contained and has limits. I also hope that there is no added guilt placed on my DCs. My stuff matters to me, but I don't want to be a slave to it, have it obstructing my life and imposing it on my DCs or my relationship with them. I do clear out what no longer serves me.

Sorry, explain it again to whom? When did you explain it to me the first time?

Not crazy about clutter personally but it's up to your parents how they want to live. Living being the key word here. Believe it or not, people in their 70s are living their lives just like everyone else, not getting ready to die. They do not need to be 'gently reminded' ie chivied into preparing for deaths that may be 20 years or more in the future.

Honestly, I would treat a suggestion like that coming from a child of mine as bloody cheeky and pretty cold. And if they dared to give me some ghastly death work book as a hint, I would disinherit them (not really before anyone kicks off).

And I say this as someone who had to empty my parents' very large house with my sister and am currently doing the same with inlaws'. It is sad work but we have taken the bits we wanted, and got a firm to clear the rest. Estate pays and we are grateful for the inheritance, not cross that we had to do a bit of work before we got it.

My DF and Stepmother are hoarders and when her DM passed she kept most of her belongings plus I’m sure years ago SM had a shopping addiction. The house is full. It smells and you can hardly move. I rarely visit and definitely wouldn’t eat there.

I am also pretty low contact. I am an only child and they have no other family so I know I am going to get this job in due course which I am dreading.

They think they have lots of valuable antiques but I very much doubt it and in any case they never bother finding out if they are sitting on a fortune, so it’s of no use.

The funny thing is, they would happily throw out each other’s stuff but not their own, so it all stays. 🤷‍♀️

No, I think you've misunderstood what's being talked about here. Most people of any age find it easy emotionally to throw away broken kettles, tins of paint that have dried up, old newspapers and so on. When people cling on to these useless things and refuse offers of help to get rid of them, there's a problem. See BogrollBOGOF's post for an example. Goodness knows why some people become hoarders, but this thread shows it's not that rare. My sympathies are with their families.

It’s not about money. It’s about the trauma caused by the parent to their child when they could lessen it by getting rid of some shit over the years. Rather than be lazy and leave it to the child to sort out. When people die, the death admin is terrible. Think about your children and lessen their turmoil - declutter and stop being so inconsiderate.

For the Why, I suspect that DM being a bombed-out war child has a lot to do with it. She didn't have affluence until her 40s+ and "waste not want not" and consumerism are a bad mix. She can bring stuff in, but just can't let stuff go. She still needs to read that horoscope in that magazine from Oct 1990, so no it can't be recycled (nor any of the others in that heap) 🤦‍♀️

I do wonder if there is a particular generational hoarding issue with late Silent Generation/ early Boomers who grew-up in an austere, deprived war/ post-war society with a lot of repressed trauma by their experiences and the passed on parental traumas (in DM's case, the father who came back from the front line was severely altered by injury and mental experiences).

The older pre-WW1 generation of my family were much more modest and functional with their possessions. The second half of their lives brought stability, but not significant disposable income.

The Why is interesting, but unfortunately not very practical when facing an adult whose attachment to objects is at self-harm levels, and is utterly resistant to facing what is basically an addiction to stuff. Like an alcoholic faced with a bottle vs their relationship with a child, it's the same dynamic with a hoarder and broken drawers/ an old newspaper/ a moth-eaten jumper.
But unless they're willing to see the problem, there's no helping them and the can is being kicked down the road for the child to deal with when they're going to be grieving, and more likely than not, grieving for a complex relationship.

Yeah right. The trauma of having to organise a professional clearance, how terrible.

I'm unclear if the exhortation to "think about your children and lessen their turmoil" is addressed to me personally. If it is, it's as wide of the mark as your previous ridiculous comment about my not thinking anyone should have an inheritance.

That was funny given part of my working life for many years has involved helping people to lawfully ensure the reduction of the share HMRC gets.

It does matter. If the estate has a million in it then there's plenty of money to pay a profession company to sort out the content of the house, removing and selling anything of value and tipping the rest.

They don't need to go near the house until it's empty and clean.

Zero additional trauma.

I'm amazed that anyone who's inititated conversations with their parents about clearing their clutter, with at least one conversation saying they will throw it all in a skip, doesn't think that they are upsetting their parents in any way, just because they aren't telling them so.

Being in your 70s and being reminded how few years you probably still have left is rarely a pleasant experience, never mind having it made very clear that your offspring are looking towards that event (not looking forward to it, necessarily!) and actively planning for it.