To start to think reform will be voted in next time, and they will be running the country

[Whatdoyouthinktothis]

I’ve been a life long labour voter, but I’m starting to think reform will be elected next time
mainly just due to so many criminals that want to harm us being allowed in and allowed to stay
and uncontrolled immigration

I think they are going to win it on this reason alone
every single day there’s a news story usually more than one someone’s been raped by one of these criminals one the other day even said he didn’t understand what rape is and he thought rape was just sex

what do you all think ?
Will reform be running the country soon ?
if they are are the capable of running things in other areas ?
if they take over how do you see that actually panning out ?

I consider that to have been a shameful action by Boris Johnson.

The 21 Conservative MPs who stood up for democracy were heros
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

Their selfless, principled stand gives me hope for the UK. I wish I saw similar courage within Labour.

Just blatantly refuse asylum and send them back. Many EU nations have done this as well. Hungary did. Poland did.

If they have a "legal right" to claim. Change the laws so they don't.

Everyone wants to stop the boats. It's the how that people differ on.

I assume you do not want to put a stop to people seeking asylum in the UK?

Yes I do find it hard to believe.

It’s a fairly well known left wing ideology to have good education for all children and it’s believed that would be more meritocratic and achievable by simply having state education for all. This is not personal spite but an overriding belief.

I can be completely onboard with that tbh but also, as an older person now I recognise it’s maybe never going to be possible of course. I’ll also own that one of my daughters would have benefited massively from private education and yes I would have paid for it if I could - I found a different way to help them. Even that though reflects the context that I benefited from a decent education making me capable of accessing information, arguing with local LA’s etc etc and it is absolutely wrong in my view that without access to decent education this should impact adversely on any child.

It’s not spite due to someone’s wealth, but it is a drive to get all kids a good education. I definitely understand that there are different views on the best way to do this - equal education for all is one ideology but there are of course others that can be debated and may be as equally valid.

Personally, I prefer good education for all children be achieved, and I’m not against that being solely state if it worked, but I have acknowledged my potential hypocrisy when it comes down to my kids - so I’ll also accept that in others and I do also believe in free choice so that’s a bit of a stopper to my thoughts too.

I’ve also said I think loss making economic decisions should be reviewed - but I think this was a starting point to overhauling education in line with left ideology so it’s not as simple as ‘oh that cost too much this year and we will scrap it’ either.

Standing by my assertion this is not spite.

No, I don't fear the Greens.

I don't think their policies are realistic but they are humane and not racist unlike Reform.

It was a political manoeuvre to deliver something the people voted for but parliament was holding back. It didn't work out and UKSC put a stop to it..but then Boris called the GE and won. He won big time.

Well that’s ok, you can be glad about whatever you like in our free society.

I see this thread has brought in Brexit - and I’m glad about that tbh - as I’m therefore asking what benefits we have seen from it? I have asked this numerous times, on numerous threads, not just on MN but other SM and in the wild - I have so far received exceptionally few responses, with just one possible benefit that I won’t name as I’m interested if this view is shared.

Please let me know - I’m more than happy to hear the benefits that outweigh the apparent negatives.

He did indeed - I’d have thought most people weren’t so happy with how that ended up though - red, blue or sky blue pink!

To me this is a warning to be careful what you wish for and also don’t fall for populist politics and politicians either.

@strawberrybubblegum
You ask But if Reform are blocked from implementing the bedrock of their manifesto, what then?
My auestion is slightly different. What if the bedrock of their manifesto is impossible, or would cause more problems than it solves? What then?

Leaving the ECHR to stop the boats, sounds simple but it isn't.

So many things are tied in with the ECHR, not in the least the Good Friday Agreement.

You’ll get that on every single party manifesto for the foreseeable future of elections, so that doesn’t tie you to Reform.

The main thing is the ‘how’ - personally I think they all obfuscate on this issue and would appreciate upfront honesty on facts, why’s wherefore’s etc and then a plan - that’s never going to happen I know. Therefore, I will take a view on what I feel is closest to the truth, closest to a humane response, closest to achievable if it fits previous criteria.

I’m always not going to take the view Reform answers the first two how I’d like - that will differ for people and that’s ok (more or less ha) - however, I also take the view Reform can’t achieve what they pledge by a long shot whereas Labour actually are achieving a little of what Reform voters want anyway - I find this a bit baffling then that we need it to be more inhumane and run by Reform.

Oh I do. I think we've been too generous and let in far too many nasty people.

Just asylum seekers or immigrants in general?

Do you use the NHS?

Exactly

I've seen some small ones here and there. Nothing earth shattering. A friend of mine has a business (that does not export and sell into the EU). He told me his business thrived and benefited from the regulatory divergence.

The crowd gets this wrong. It’s not to first port of entry and not for loads of people. Otherwise everyone in the EU would send asylum seekers back to Spain, Greece and Italy.

They don’t because the DA has to meet high criteria and the receiving country can say no. Which they often do. We took more than returned under it.

Example of what Reform is proposing cutting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3ple18d8xo

Will @Whatdoyouthinktothis ever come back to engage with their thread?

Asylum seekers.

It was illegal. You were the one complaining about recourse to the courts when it was the only way to reinstate democracy - which you claim to espouse.

So much angst over such a small group.

I actually think overall EU free movement was a great thing. Good cultural compatibility, high skilled labour. The ability for us to move to Europe as well.

I think there was the argument that it was unfair for those who happened to be born with a non-EU passport who wanted to move here, were as skilled but were in the back of the queue compared to those who by luck of birth had an EU passport..

But I think overall, with EU migration a lot integrated. I honestly wouldn't even mind a CANZUK as well for even more free travel between these lands.

The courts ruled it was illegal yes. Parliament was in deadlock, Boris had to do something. That didn't work. He called a GE and won big time. He smashed the hard left to the point that labour had to rebuild and thankfully move away from Corbyn.

They don't necessarily treat women and us locals well do they? Many years ago I'd probably have been on the "they are welcome here" side. But I realise now that they aren't compatible with western society.

Not really. There were 110,051 asylum applications last year before Labour’s temporary family reunification ban. With overall approval rates (after appeal) being around 70%, that’s 77,000 people who will need housing, healthcare and other financial support. The as the 77,000 arrived before the ban, they will then be able to bring family members over to join them. There’s currently an average of 76,000 family reunification visas issued per year too. I don’t think that adding around 150,000 mostly low income people needing housing, healthcare and financial support to our country every year is a small group.