To start to think reform will be voted in next time, and they will be running the country

[Whatdoyouthinktothis]

I’ve been a life long labour voter, but I’m starting to think reform will be elected next time
mainly just due to so many criminals that want to harm us being allowed in and allowed to stay
and uncontrolled immigration

I think they are going to win it on this reason alone
every single day there’s a news story usually more than one someone’s been raped by one of these criminals one the other day even said he didn’t understand what rape is and he thought rape was just sex

what do you all think ?
Will reform be running the country soon ?
if they are are the capable of running things in other areas ?
if they take over how do you see that actually panning out ?

The results in from Scotland are that it is a net tax loss, so unlikely to fund anything. It’s also a disproportionate tax aimed at children.

So I disagree with you it’s leveling up, it’s simply levelling down, but I agree with you it’s a very Labour type thing to do. Before I had to explain over and over again that the children’s education tax is a tax on children’s education (WTF !?!) , my point was that it’s these ideological ill thought out policies that have made Labour so unpopular and must be reversed. This was just one example.

Labour promised to be a government of growth and were given a chance, they reverted to classic Labour type knee jerk spite identity politics policies that are the opposite to growth policies. They were already finished within the first year.

Detention centres as proposed by Reform meet the term concentration camp.

If that term makes you uncomfortable then so should Reform's proposal of such camps.

If they simply incarcerate illegal arrivals, and don't kill them of dystentry en masse, then I won't have a problem with them regardless of what you wish to call them... better that than women getting raped.

You said you didn’t care because it only affected 7% of families, I suspect it’s more to do with how you prejudge those families and children into identity boxes that makes you not care.

But when policy costs more than it makes, there isn't any extra money to put into schools. There's less. (Or less of some other state spending. Or more borrowing)

It's already cost Scotland £60m in the first year.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/c0795a61e4834ddd

The policy is on course to be loss-making in England too in a few years (the costs will increase year-on-year for at least 5 years, as children complete educational stages and parents choose not to use private schools.)

The government estimated 3000 children would move from private to state in the first year, but in fact there were 11,000 to 16,696 fewer pupils in private schools this year. 5 times more than predicted/claimed (althoufh a court case showed evidence that the government knew before they brought it in that was an underestimate).

The boundary for the tax making a loss is 50,000.

Will you still support it when it's losing money?

You'd be happy to have one where you live? Or would you vote Reform for nimby?

Any thoughts about the cost of building and running them?

And what identity boxes would those be?

No I obviously wouldn't, just like I'm not happy at these migrants in hotels, detention centres, or HMOs near me. The hope and point is that that, plus deportations, means it finally stops.

They've made lots of mistakes. Those 2 US citizens ideally could have just not interfered with ICE.

At least they are removing the illegals.

Hope isn't a realistic policy.

That is one hell of a way to excuse the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti.

My worst nightmare. Knowing my family members who fought facsism in WWII would be rolling in their graves. All the suffragettes too who fought for women to have the right to vote to have some autonomy over themselves - all to be eroded away.

What's being eroded in "women's rights"?

Absurd.

@IRodeInand @strawberrybubblegum
Thanks for your replies - just answering both together as you both give some of the economics/figures behind the policy.
I’ll be honest and say I haven’t looked in depth at coatings, figures, projections- not as I wish to be blind to any policy failure, but just as it’s impossible to check every single thing across any government so closely - I appreciate you have, though probably as it’s particularly relevant to you - which I would too.

I’m equally not necessarily simply accepting the figures on first look, expect you do understand that too.

If it’s an actual money loser policy then I’d hope it would be reviewed, rejigged - not a u turn but a review on forecasting not fitting reality - and they will have had many different forecasts and information on this. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to change some stuff. I would still argue that it’s a better policy to prioritise those with less - get everyone upto scratch - it’s not about ‘punishment’ but it is about sharing.

Fyi I went to a private school, this was viewed as a privilege and also meant some sacrifices on the part of my parents. I am more than aware therefore that I had an excellent education compared to some other peers, and it absolutely gave me a head start at first (which I threw away as a youngster ha) but later too when I went back to education and had the basics. I am fortunate- I think it’s shocking that whilst I had that privilege others barely leave school as literate and able to access society. I later worked as an adult Ed tutor - I can assure you that if many had had decent education, breakfast pre school day included, they wouldn’t have been scrambling to catch up mid life. I strongly believe in a good education for all - I accept some are fortunate enough to provide good education for their kids, and actually am not left wing enough to object to that - why wouldn’t you do this. But do remember your kids are starting from a good place already compared to many - you have options to support them to continue in a good place too - but we are a society too and it’s no good having privilege in a shit society tbh, not for anyone, except the absolute assholes who thrive on cash for them and not the plebs - I don’t think either of you would fall into this category - and it’s not a society I want to live in where the less well off are abandoned on the alter of others’ wealth.

We use state and it’s a bad policy because it delivers no benefit economically and damages education for some dc. People might not vote due to that particular policy but generally a feeling of being conned will be there for many. I think Labour will see this on Thursday.

Really - honestly, I’m not actually happy personally with Labour’s immigration policies but they are already lowering net migration - putting ILR further out of reach, reducing and addressing the asylum backlog and small boats - what else are you looking for?

Don’t forget the previous, right wing if not morphing to further right, didn’t only not resolve the ‘issues’ but deliberately allowed the asylum backlog to increase year on year - odd isn’t it that they didn’t bother investing in caseworkers etc to sort this. Alternatively, it’s such a huge issue that they just couldn’t - suggesting no other right wing government will do so either.

Asylum seekers will not stop migrating - they’re just not and this is reality - my view is a global approach is needed but that’s not gonna happen obviously, so it has to managed and balanced by each country of course. Cutting foreign aid to places people are then forced to leave does not fit with wanting to reduce migrants tbh - not sure if Reform would really hope for more migrants to bluster about, threaten and blame when they’re in hmmm?

I am sure some Reform voters would want to shoot on sight on the beaches but I doubt that would happen - inevitably Farage will blame ‘other countries’ for not accepting the returnees - as they don’t always have to you know - abd not do very much different to what’s happening today - and so leave those here to be vilified and mocked in an accessible camp - I have no words - it is abhorrent.

Ooh - where to start.

Burning the various rights acts - yes we can (possibly) return migrants more quickly - it also will remove your rights with it - some are applicable to all of us but will impact women more in general.

Employment rights - yes applicable to all of us- impacting women more - mat leave, p/t, carers stuff.

Taxing folk for not having children - it’s gonna be the women actually having them.

Kruger’s views on breeding and women are also absolutely abhorrent however Reform dresses them up to sound family friendly and ‘British’.

Right - I can’t even find words to comment on that lack of humanity - but I see that you would also prefer no right to protest for citizens. Don’t worry too much as Labour are helping roll that back too - not as fast or as far as Reform though I’m sure.

Have you ever thought what living in your utopia land would be in reality - ‘first they came for …’ also springs to mind.

What rights acts being removed will hurt women? Do you not want migrants returned faster?

Some (not all) employment laws are way too rigid and hurt businesses.

I don't think women or families should be taxed for not having children, but if possible we should make it easier for families to have children.

I have no idea what Kruger said.

@MsJinks This is how we got Brexit, now children’s education tax, farmers being driven to suicide and massive unemployment. We all need to do basic research. Some ideologically motivated Labour politicians through out some buzz words ‘tax payer subsidising’, ‘6500 new teachers’, linked independent schools to state funding even though there’s no relation. ‘Our kids need pens more than they need astroturf..’ and people just bought it. It was not even very hard to find out the truth

I went to a bog standard comp, I can assure you those coming out illiterate had nothing to do with the school itself and I can also assure you they would fall for nonsense policies like this hook, line and sinker.

Nothing right now. A Reform government has said it would repeal the 2010 Equality Act. Sex as a protected characteristic would be a thing of the past. So maternity leave and pay, equal pay to men, a whole range of protections would be removed. Every woman contemplating a vote for them needs to know this.

When my eldest was in primary there were some kids who had absolutely no motivation to do anything and to study. They just played the playstation and Xbox. Never did their hw. Were constantly years behind expected attainment.

The kids failing - nothing to do with education delivered - I can agree on that. However, it will have a lot to do with the kids’ backgrounds in many cases - no breakfast, late to school, poor environment- these things need tackling for everyone attending state education to get the available education on offer.

We had sure start, more community Ed, and other initiatives promoting and assisting with the kids’ backgrounds - now breakfast clubs are a start towards this.

We do obviously sit on different political sides - and that’s ok - we see different approaches though to get things better - that’s basically the root of this debate as I see it - I did vote labour and I’m left leaning but normally, or at least I used to, see valid policies left and right - and also a lot of similarities in the motivation to improve life in the U.K. though obviously different ideas on how to achieve this - but it’s ended up very extreme now though I think with populism, sides etc - I’m not oblivious at all to failings of my preferred parties but do try to find a party that aligns with my general principles.

I looked into economics more with Brexit as it was such a big thing - I’m naturally a remainer and economics confirmed it to me tbh. I wouldn’t say I’m oblivious as I like soundbites - though I wouldn’t do would I lol - but I may well look at this for sure.

It isn’t such a singular issue as you think though in my opinion - there’s a lot more going on that for me would override this - Iran, Iran, Iran at the least - and I would also argue Tory economic policies were disastrous at points - and Reform’s would be worse - outside of my general views on political leanings even.

And let's not get distracted from Farage's £5m donation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xg40w4ero