Don't like Farage but..

[TheBlueKoala]

I do agree with him that foreign nationals shouldn't be able to claim benefits and to scrap PIP for mild mental health issues. And that the money saved should go into mental health care so that everyone with mild mental health problems can access NHS care rapidly.

Farage would say anything if he thought it would buy him a few more votes from the hard of thinking.

So far we know he doesn’t like Immigrants, people with mental illnesses and people on benefits.

You have to wonder which he thinks will win him more votes , bringing back the 2 child benefits cap, dangerous dogs, bus passes for old people, or womens rights?

Everybody who talks about "privatise the NHS" always implies that the only alternative is the awful US model.

Most of the countries of the EU run a hybrid model of social health insurance and shock, horror, they generally produce better outcomes than the NHS on mortality, cancer treatments etc.

That model allows for capital expenditure and modernisation (severely lacking in NHS with its silly klarna-style funding model and outdated buildings)

It also allows for a modicum of competition/increase in capacity in many areas - especially those where the NHS already subcontracts out to the private sector who innovate and adapt.much faster than the huge bureaucracy.

Moreover it would provide other settings in which doctors can work, generating a better environment than presently where doctors are either private or government contracted.

Farage may/not be disingenuous and dangerous but treating the NHS as a sacred cow that cannot be improved and "is the envy of the world" is even worse.

Dont be fooled into thinking the NHS is free. It's not. You just don't see that you're already paying significant amounts of health insurance already.

@DownyBirch Indefinite leave to remain is not just for refugees. Loads of very high earning professionals who came here with job offers and a visa then apply for and get ILR. Many very senior staff at my workplace have ILR.

"Preparing food, eating and drinking, managing therapies, washing and bathing, managing toilet needs, dressing and undressing, communicating verbally, reading, engaging with others, and making budgeting decisions."

You need to be unable to do multiple of those things without a carer (or specialised aids, if possible) to be able to get PIP.

How do we square this with news reports of millions spent on PIP payments for conditions like ADHD or anxiety?

Is it that figures are manipulated, or do these conditions genuinely lead to inability to perform basic survival functions at this frequency? How do we differentiate between someone who cannot engage with others due to poor mental health, vs someone who is incentivised not to by the benefits system?

The bottom line is we need more people doing more work and paying more tax. How that is achieved is the only thing that should be up for debate.

The current situation is absurd beyond belief.

Why do we not have a social contract linked to benefits. Nothing too onerous, just something to focus people’s minds on the fact that they are taking from society and asking others to work for no pay so that they don’t have to.

Maybe 10 hours per week of mandatory community service. I think that would be beneficial for both the individuals and society as a whole. Of course the relatively small number who have very serious physical disabilities can be excluded if needed. For everyone else I struggle to see why they wouldn’t want to play a part in the community who support them so well.

The votes show more for yanbu, plus just tell mnhq directly if you think posts aren’t real.

I don't care anymore.

This country is demographically and fiscally doomed. Nothing can prevent that. It's inevitable.

You're going to be a persecuted and hated minority in your own ancestral homeland. When the magic money tree runs out it's going to be lord of the flies.

You can speed it up by voting green or plug a few holes in the sinking ship with Reform/Restore.

Well, they all did all right having struggled at the start. They worked hard and found work that paid. More people should do that now.

I have not had English cleaners or gardeners for 20 years. All Eastern European.

What model do you think Reform wants to implement, given their performance to date?

People need to focus on the policy details not headlines and disgenuous promises.

Those conditions really can to lead to that level of disability. The problem is that we are saturated with images and content from people with mild versions of those conditions, telling us about their experiences. But those experiences (eg social difficulties, tiredness as opposed to fatigue) would not meet the PIP threshold.

Nobody gets PIP for having anxiety or ADHD,they get it if they meet the criteria it is not diagnosis based ,its based on how the condition impacts a person.

The social health insurance model - free at the point of use - probably with a variable excess limited to about £2k/year dependent on earnings and waived completely for those on low income/benefits.

If I thought they would implement the USA model i wouldn't have posted

Just because you agree on one issue with the man who fails to acknowledge bullying and racism in his past, does not mean you should vote for his party.

I have to say, I disagree; you should listen to him. I think we should listen to all the leaders from the main parties, to understand what leadership under that party would look like, what is in the policy manifesto or perhaps more importantly, to see why it is that other people might vote for Reform. I don’t like him either, he’s a proven liar (still waiting for the £350m to the NHS per week to kick in) and fundamentally self serving but at the moment he is saying what a lot of people want to hear and many people will vote for policies, even if they dislike Farage himself.
A sizeable number of people in this country have concerns about immigration, especially those coming from countries with dubious female rights and applying those standards here. You and another significant number of people might shrug that off as racism and shut down dialogue but not listening to people as labeling them as racist or stupid is what gotten us into situations like Brexit in the past.
I dislike Zach Polanski but will make sure I’ve educated myself on his manifesto before I go to the polling station.

I also think voting should be compulsory but that’s another thread!

Are you saying that foreign nationals who immigrate to the UK should never be able to claim benefits even if they've been in the UK for 20 years? Because currently foreign nationals can't claim benefits until they get indefinite leave to remain (which Labour is proposing to change from five years to ten). While waiting to be entitled for indefinite leave to remain, foreign nationals currently have to pay a large 'nhs surcharge' (plus the huge costs of applying for visas) as well as paying taxes like everyone else (they have to meet a financial threshold to show they can support themselves). I.e. they don't get benefits and they have to pay extra beyond what British people pay.

"An estimated 16.8 million people in the UK had a disability in 2023/24, accounting for 25% of the total population."

Let that sink in. 1 in 4 are "disabled" go tell that to any foreigner from a normal sane country and they'll laugh in your face or accuse you of lying.

Yes because we can really trust him when he says he will get money back into the nhs. Remember Brexit ?

You were very clear in your OP. But it's been pointed out that there are no migrants getting benefits for mild mental health issues, so there are no savings to be made. Therefore he's talking shite when he says what he would do with non-existent money.

45% of pension age adults are disabled.
11% of children.
23% of working age adults.

SO far and away the largest section of disabled adults are drawn from the older cohorts.

But there are people who meet thise criteria due to anxiety or ADHD?

Of course there is. Everyone’s health issues affect them differently. My DD has severe generalised anxiety and is unable to leave the house. She is tutored at home through an EHCP, her last day in school was April 24. It has a severe impact on her ability to function. it’s also not just usually anxiety but a mixture of other things too which can be complex to treat.

Realistically, you’re not going to get pip for “mild” mental illnesses. Farage is doing what he does best: taking credit for stuff he doesn’t deserve and talking about stuff he has no clue about but pretends he does. He’s clearly good at it up to a point because people like the OP don’t see through it.

Farage represents the worst of political behaviour in that he reduces everything to an absurd degree and does not recognise subtleties or realities or the true complexity of society and human behaviour. Most politicians do this to a degree - hence the short-termism of governments.

Too many foreigners around? - starve them out.
Too many people on benefits? - brand them all as scroungers
Mentally ill? - just pull yourself together

The issue of who gets what when it comes to benefits has always been complex and problematical. Lines have to be drawn somewhere and they then become rigid and inclined towards farce, as anyone who has filled in any sort of benefits form will know. Do you provide a universal benefit or do you means test? - does the means test cost more to administer than just giving it to everyone in a certain category?

Who is an illegal immigrant? - who do we let in? - should they be allowed to work? - should they be fed? They mostly look different from us "real Brits" (as per Farage speak) so let's label them as bad and alien and scroungers.

Life is complex - political decisions are complex. People shy away from this and the likes of Farage feed into this by reducing ideas to crude slogans. Anyone who can't be bothered to really think things through will just lap it up. Trump has demonstrated that so clearly. There are those who want reality summarised in a cliche that lets them off the hook from using their brains a bit.

Of course there are problems with abuse of the benefits system and immigration levels - but solving these does not happen by labelling people in a simplistic fashion. This "othering" of people as different and thus unworthy (a weird non sequitur) is dangerous and inhumane.

So who are? The people who haven’t done it for the past 20 years.

That doesnt mean they are entitled to disabillity benefits
My oldest son had acute necotising pancreaittus three years ago and it totallly destroyed his pancreas he is now Diabetic and has to inject himself 5+ times a dsy with insulin to stay alive ,its classed as a disabillity but aa hes fully independent in the management of it ,he wouldnt meet the criteria to be eligible for PIP.