AIBU to complain about safety after violent behaviour in primary class?

[TeutoburgForest]

NC for this and posting here for traffic

My child is in primary school in what has always been a lovely class. Last year a child transferred in who had been removed from his mum’s care so obviously issues going on, now living with a different family member.

The child is extremely violent and threatens other children for telling the teachers. They have been temporarily excluded at least twice - the latest for two days. Yesterday the child attacked my child and gave a death threat. The children in the class do not feel safe and obviously are not safe! I pushed to meet the head and executive head today and asked them at what threshold this behaviour meets the grounds for permanent exclusion. The answer was basically - it won’t. The child will be given extra support and referrals will be made etc but the head said the bar for permanent exclusion is so high it basically won’t happen. I said (because this kid already had a mountain of support) so basically for the next two years the rest of class have to put up with things as they are? Silence. I’m appalled that the majority of kids are used in what feels like a social experiment so that a tiny minority get to be educated ‘in their community’. I’m going to the board of governors/education trust executive team with complaints re safeguarding of the rest of the class - any advice on how to do this effectively welcome.

You can only move your child which, if things are as bad as you say, you must do to safeguard them.

So the bar for permanent exclusion really is that high? It’s not just unwillingness on the part of the SLT?

I'm surprised that the head even entertained discussing another child with you.

I'd focus on what you can control personally such as moving your own child.

No advice @TeutoburgForestbut I agree with you.

@Doodlebuhthat would be very disruptive for OPs child, plus it doesn’t change the situation for the rest of the class.

the disruptive child needs to be removed. The issue is there’s nowhere to move him to. Education is underfunded and something needs to be done.

From what I’ve heard, yes, it is. It basically doesn’t happen at primary level.

School governor here and I would question what the head has told you. In my direct experience permanent exclusion is a real outcome where a child is a persistent risk to themselves, other pupils or staff, assuming all possible support is in place.

Definitely take this to the governing body.

Don’t ask what will get him expelled. Ask what they are putting in place to keep your child safe. If that is insufficient or does not work, then you can escalate with the complaint that your child is not being kept safe.

From what I understand, at primary school yes and even more so if we are talking about a child with special needs, a 'looked after' child etc and this child sounds like he'd fall under looked after.

That's the approach I would advise as well.

How old are the children?

Sadly, the HT is correct. This will be an increasing problem going forward as schools have been firmly discouraged from suspending and excluding etc. The bar has been raised higher and higher. It isn't the schools fault, it's the latest policies. Yes the child needs support, but most teaching staff realize that a general school is not necessarily the right place for that for all children.

Of course it happens at primart school!

There are PRUs for primary aged children as well as secondary.

Have you spoken to the governors or even the eduction team at the council.

Perhaps tell the head that you are putting him on notice for failure to safeguard your child and should something happen, will find him personally responsible for lack of action etc etc

It’s shit though, isn’t it? Why should 29 sets of parents have to consider pulling their children from a school they love to send elsewhere? What if they have siblings in the school - move both? What if no space nearby? Or no space for both of them? What if they live in a village with only 1 school?

It’s an awful situation for everyone and I feel for the poor child who is causing the issues because ultimately he’s a victim too. Who knows what he’s been through, or going through. He needs more help than he’s currently receiving. BUT it cannot be left to allow the other children in the class get hurt, be threatened, feel unsafe coming to school and ultimately dread school for the next however many years.

I wish I knew the solution OP. I wish you luck with the governors. Could you try writing to your MP? The local council?

I think all you can ask for is for your child to be kept away from the violent child as much as possible. The approach they take with the other child isn't something that's up for discussion with you and the other parents.

@DistractMe i think it’s the ‘all possible support’ that will be the sticking point. You can mess around with referrals, diagnoses and support for ages - I can see these things taking the next year to two years to have in place. Even if they are successful then that’s two years the rest of the class have suffered

You need to move your focus on to how they will protect your child. What measures are being put in place to safeguard your child.

Don’t bother asking about punishments for that child. You have to purely make it about safeguarding your child. Put it in writing as well. Including that your child doesn’t feel safe in the class.

If other parents also do the same they have to act and prove they are protecting the other children.

This child will come with extra funding. I permanently care for a family members child and am a foster carer so I can assure you they are being extra money for this child.
They can also claim extra money on top for his needs.
I had a foster child that was very violent in a main stream school. They ended up employing 2 staff and keeping him on a 2:1 ratio at all times.
Your child's school can do this as well. You may find They are reluctant to as they often redirect the funding to benefit the entire school such as staff training and equipment.

Yes it is extremely difficult/ seen as not an option.
Clearly this child has suffered trauma themselves and is hopefully receiving therapy of some kind, likely play.
The separate issue is your dc's physical safety and sense of safety. The school must go over and above to provide this also. It's not an easy fix. Does the child have a 1:1? Sounds like they need one and that would help. Are they allowed out to playtime with others? I work with children like this but I still say a basic rule is: if others are not safe because of you, you cannot go onto the yard. I have done separate small groups in an effort to encourage and teach play and cooperation skills as well as limits. It's takes imagination, time and human resources. The higher the need, the more schools should support it and it sounds like for everyone in this class, this is pretty high need. If particular children have been targeted they may also need their own access to emotional support.

The school are not going to disuss the other child with you for obvious confidentiality reasons
However they have a duty of care to YOUR child and you need to frame your conversations to school about how they intend to keep your child safe.

@Tillow4ever i will try all avenues. The fact is there are no local state schools with space so we are going to have to go private, which really sticks in my craw

I am a primary teacher with a child of my own who was in a similar position to yours at school. The school's hands are tied, particularly as the child is question is in kinship care. They cannot permanently exclude them, they can only put supports in place, on an extremely limited budget, to try to reduce their challenging behaviour. We moved our child to a different school where they were obviously bound by the same rules and restrictions but happened to have a less challenging cohort in dd's year group.

Perhaps tell the head that you are putting him on notice for failure to safeguard your child

What does this mean and how is it done?

This, you need to keep it about your child and keeping him safe, mentioning the other child and their behaviour seems to be seen as worse than their attacks and violence!

OP could move their child but there will probably be a child with similar behaviour in their new class.
There are so many children disrupting classes nowadays. We've had a whole class removed to the library for safety due to a child trashing the class on a daily basis. Were they excluded? No. Sent home for the rest of the day and back the next morning.

The only time it was addressed was when a parent threatened to go to the press and police.

Primary schools can permanently exclude but the bar is high. If special needs are involved then the school will have to provide evidence that they have taken those in account when making the decision and that they have put reasonable adjustments etc in place and had followed them