AIBU to complain about safety after violent behaviour in primary class?

[TeutoburgForest]

NC for this and posting here for traffic

My child is in primary school in what has always been a lovely class. Last year a child transferred in who had been removed from his mum’s care so obviously issues going on, now living with a different family member.

The child is extremely violent and threatens other children for telling the teachers. They have been temporarily excluded at least twice - the latest for two days. Yesterday the child attacked my child and gave a death threat. The children in the class do not feel safe and obviously are not safe! I pushed to meet the head and executive head today and asked them at what threshold this behaviour meets the grounds for permanent exclusion. The answer was basically - it won’t. The child will be given extra support and referrals will be made etc but the head said the bar for permanent exclusion is so high it basically won’t happen. I said (because this kid already had a mountain of support) so basically for the next two years the rest of class have to put up with things as they are? Silence. I’m appalled that the majority of kids are used in what feels like a social experiment so that a tiny minority get to be educated ‘in their community’. I’m going to the board of governors/education trust executive team with complaints re safeguarding of the rest of the class - any advice on how to do this effectively welcome.

OP, if it’s grabbing crotches and balls, I’d tell the governors the truth - children are being sexually assaulted at school.

Yes, the poor little sod who’s doing it probably got the idea from the parents who he no longer lives with, and that’s absolutely not relevant to the school’s response.

I’m feeling incredibly sad. To a large extent I feel we have been sheltered from decline in this country due to our relative wealth, but honestly this thread and our experience at school has really brought home just how little money for education there is; just what teachers (and other students) now have to put up with; and why my sibling left the country to get their kids an education (which I have always thought a crazy move). It all feels so broken and the thought it is going to get worse is horrific.

I’m sorry your child is going through this. As a looked after child, the bar will be extremely high.

We also dealt with a violent child joining in a private school. It took 7 months, one child being hospitalised twice and the teacher walking out one day for the child to leave. Just like you, it had been a lovely class and even once said child left the children were asking if the child was ok and showing concern for them. They are a lovely group but it was almost a year of hell. We also never heard from this child’s parents. They would turn up at parties etc and act completely normally as if nothing had happened, never made apologies or acknowledged what was going on, even as it happened at parties!

My daughter was one of the targets and I almost pulled her out. I believe the mother of the child who was hospitalised twice made a complaint that was listened to. I had gone to the year head and was told that child would not be with my daughter the following year, I think insinuating they would mix the classes to account for the targeted children. Could your school mix classes? Or is it single form entry?

OP, you do realise that sending your child private will not ensure this doesn't happen, right?! Just because a child's parents can afford private does not mean they cannot have similar issues or SEN which leads to violent outbursts?

In fact, in my experience, especially now with the VAT issue, private schools will turn a blind eye as they need the fees.

What private schools do have is more resource to support these children, that is absolutely correct but that is not a guarantee that it won't happen. The aim will always be to keep them in the school community, in class.

You sound incredibly emotional, and I understand that, but the things you describe are sadly not new or unique and will be found in every setting with children. Before you react any further with governors letters and reports to the council and moving to private school, why not take the weekend to reflect.

You also don't mention what your child wants. Are they feeling threatened or are you telling them that? I have children of a similar age and they are generally very understanding of the SEN kids and issues because they educate them about it - much, much more so than when I was at school. Moving a child from friendship groups and a familiar, positive setting is a huge gamble. Many parents often underestimate the longer term impact on the child.

I.wholeheartedly agree with the majority of other posters in thY you should be asking the school what they are doing to safeguard your child, that should be the focus.

@Focussingonme the likelihood is a lot smaller though.
My oldest (secondary ) had 2 children unceremoniously removed from his school since the start of the last academic year for similar reasons as the OP. one lasted less than 4 weeks, the other (less extreme one) a term with multiple exclusions before. Both came from state schools. Verbal bullying gets dealt with as well, no complaints.
My younger son (primary) never had any violent children in his class, but three children (out of 60!) were verbally bullying him and some other kids. These children were warned, worked with and finally forbidden to go anywhere close to my son and the other children they had bullied, and that was enforced. One actually turned around and is very pleasant now and fully integrated in the class, two “voluntary left” at the end of the school year.
As usual, pick a good school with solid anti- bullying policies, not one that pretends bullying doesn’t exist. It exists everywhere, how you deal with it is the difference.

To all posters saying I should be focusing on what they are doing to safeguard my son - of course that was the main thrust of the conversation. But when the reply is - we’re putting support in place for the other child and we will speak to the class about not being afraid to speak up (the other child threatens them with violence if they do plus his behaviour is completely normalised in that class) - both of which I see as ineffectual, of course the next line of questioning is, so if this all fails (as it has done for over a year) what is the next step for the child?

@Focussingonme you make some good points I will think about. Do you have experience of this behaviour at private school? Is there research on underestimating the longer term impact on a child of moving schools or is this anecdotal/what you surmise?

Just wanted to say that researchers predict this will become way more common (private education, home education) for all the reasons specified in this thread. If parents can protect their children then they will. You are just one of the early adopters.

@TeutoburgForest
the private school we moved our DS to had a child who left after 6 weeks due to behaviour issues. I heard several parents raised complaints very quickly, guess they were listened to.
And obviously moving schools is a big decision, there is no guarantee that things will go well.
But for our son, the relief for him of not being in a disruptive sometimes violent environment all day was immediate. He settled quickly and made friends he still has.

They shouldn't be discussing next steps about someone else's child with you. That will be a conversation for the child's carer.

Could you speak to other parents and make sure they are making their safeguarding concerns clear as well? I suspect that your voice will be a lot more effective if it isn't a lone voice or one of just a few.

The next step is to go to the governors with the school’s inability to keep your child safe. You include a log of all incidents, dates etc, plus the school’s responses, so that you can show “on X date I was told things were being put in place however since then there have been 5 incidents of violence against my child” or whatever the specifics are, so that you can clearly show the school is not keeping your child safe and that the measures they say are in place are ineffective.

I totally understand why you want to know what’s being done with the other child. It’s just that it’s not going to get you anywhere with the school or the governors if you approach it that way.

@WhatAMarvelousTune Actually it’s not. It’s the complains policy. The governors cannot deal with individuals without insisting on the complaints policy being used.

Is there not another primary school fairly local to you that you could look at?

My child is at a private school. Are they all perfect angels all the time? No.

But, behaviour issues are minor in comparison to what you describe happening to your son. Their expectations are generally much higher and children are broadly expected to toe the line and conduct themselves in a decent and respectful manner to both staff and fellow pupils.

Violent behaviour just wouldn’t be tolerated. The child would be excluded pretty sharpish.

@GetRollin They would probably not enrol the child in the first place! They would just say they could not meet his needs and they cannot afford problems with the other fee paying parents! They are paying for education and expect to get it without disruption. They might have high expectations but they never have dc like this.

Same. My kids are also at private schools and a big reason for that is not wanting this behaviour around my kids. A child would be managed out pretty quick regardless of the reasons.
in fact it’s very embarrassing if your child was like this so parents too are very much on top op behaviour and support the school

Not true as sometimes it’s not obvious at first especially if a child joins in the pre prep stage.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner our school enrolled them 2 in year 7 - you can’t always predict how kids are in a social setting, and they were both clever. However, both lasted less than a term (one less than a month). Both were aggressive and in need of high needs specialist provision, but i don’t think it was as bad as in the OPs case.

Yanbu

Well one of the things the head and exec head categorically told us would happen whilst the child was suspended was that they would be going into the class and talking to the children about what was going on/encouraging them to speak up about bad behaviour. Has this happened? NO! It’s all such a load of BS. Interestingly I asked my neighbour today how her girl in year 5 of the school was finding it as I wanted to know if the disruption was more widespread than this one year . She told me she pulled her daughter out of that school a few weeks ago due to similar issues and she is so much happier at a new school. FWIW the school my son goes to has outstanding from ofsted.

The child in question is 8 years old. If OP is in the UK then they are below the age of criminal responsibility. This is not a Police matter.

Yes, very sadly the bar for exclusion is high. They will not leave your child’s school. However, keep reporting ANY concerns. These sort of children are now fairly common in schools and usually need two TA’s to themselves (as they don’t feel safe and need safeguarding). Those TA’s who used to support your child in class and help them improve whatever their starting point. Sadly if your child is fine, they have to get on with it.

@IWaffleAlot It is often obvious and dc do pre entry tests. Dc as the op describes would almost certainly not get a place, even at pre prep. State is entirely different.