AIBU to complain about safety after violent behaviour in primary class?

[TeutoburgForest]

NC for this and posting here for traffic

My child is in primary school in what has always been a lovely class. Last year a child transferred in who had been removed from his mum’s care so obviously issues going on, now living with a different family member.

The child is extremely violent and threatens other children for telling the teachers. They have been temporarily excluded at least twice - the latest for two days. Yesterday the child attacked my child and gave a death threat. The children in the class do not feel safe and obviously are not safe! I pushed to meet the head and executive head today and asked them at what threshold this behaviour meets the grounds for permanent exclusion. The answer was basically - it won’t. The child will be given extra support and referrals will be made etc but the head said the bar for permanent exclusion is so high it basically won’t happen. I said (because this kid already had a mountain of support) so basically for the next two years the rest of class have to put up with things as they are? Silence. I’m appalled that the majority of kids are used in what feels like a social experiment so that a tiny minority get to be educated ‘in their community’. I’m going to the board of governors/education trust executive team with complaints re safeguarding of the rest of the class - any advice on how to do this effectively welcome.

I should have said, the numbers I mentioned are for PP+. There simply isn't enough for one to ones. Sometimes a reduced timetable may be considered to help the child regulate during a shorter school day etc.

I mean, it’s been over a year already … I think this will continue until the end of year 6

Probably. We left and went private. Best decision ever (although no more nice things, holidays, treats for us). Situation at old school didn’t change for many years.

There isn't enough money to fund 1:1s so existing TAs are used. In my last school nobody had a general TA anymore - all the TAs were out of class with disruptive children.

I just wish school would be honest from the start “Fyi should your child be verbally or physically attacked at school, we will deny it, blame your child for not being kind, and find any way possible to ensure that the violent child faces no consequences for their behaviour, in fact we’ll probably tell you a version of the “he’s doing it because he likes you” guilt trip “

How many parents feel the same way? Try and speak to other parents outside of your normal group.

If you are getting towards the majority of parents feeling strongly about this can you take some kind of significant action? For example all wait together with your children at drop off one pre arranged day and refuse to let them into the classroom until the head teacher comes out to speak with you as a group.

I get that the school is in a difficult position due to a nationwide lack of specialist behaviour schools but if having all of the children scared for their safety in class is not acceptable.

As with many things in life; People will take the path of least resistance. You need to make it more difficult for the head to ignore the problem than deal with the problem.

I’m an ex teacher OP, and I feel for you.

I also feel for the teachers and other kids. This situation is happening across England and it shouldn’t be.

I was at school with a boy just like this over 20 years ago, the last I heard of him he was in prison before his 18th birthday. I think we need to accept there will always be a minority of people who cannot cope in mainstream society, there’s no point keeping them in schools where they terrorise the other pupils and teachers. Yes it is effectively writing them off but surely it’s better to properly educate 29 children at the expense of one who is, let’s face it, probably not going to contribute to society in any positive way anyway

Was the boy 20 years ago looked after too, or had experience an adverse experience in childhood?

I wouldn’t suggest that other children should have to face violence at school, but some perspective and compassion for the other child would be lovely.

I think that’s far better than referring to them in the way you just have. They are after all also children.

Of course it’s very sad for him, he was a violent child who turned into a violent adult, but that’s not my problem to solve. We should have been protected from him.

I’m sure there’s the odd story of one of these children staying in mainstream school and being inspired by a marvellous teacher to defy the odds and go on to be a productive member of society, but we all know that’s unlikely and I’m not willing to offer up my child as a punching bag in the meantime.

There used to be little to none of this back in the days when there were actual consequences for bad behaviour
I'll get my coat 😉

@2ndcarowner good response to yet another “why can’t you be kiiiiinnnd ?”!
all the think of the violent child !!” Threads are never ending

You missed a bit. The bit where I said..

“I wouldn’t suggest that other children should have to face violence at school.”

I just don’t think we need to imply that a child is a waste of resources and time because they’ve had a shit start in life, that’s beyond their control.

But they often are a waste of resources, and they’re taking from the other children by being there, and we’re all paying for it. Better to send them off somewhere where they can be taught to behave before they’re allowed to rejoin their peers, or if needs be babysat until they’re old enough to sign on.

It's going to be even more unlikely if they are immediately written off.

A big issue is that they often don't belong in mainstream but they get shoved in there anyway and set up to fail. It isn't great for anyone.

Unfortunately with these new changes coming in, it's going to get worse.

Jesus.

Those children do need specialist support, that they can’t access in the school they’re in, and that absolutely has an unreasonable affect on the other children.

But calling them a waste, or that them getting that support is unfair on others, or that we should just put them in a holding pen essentially - is disgusting.

It’s mind boggling that there are parents on here who would have such an awful and dismissive attitude to vulnerable kids. Disgusting.

Retired teacher here...they really resist any type of exlucion or expulsion now...you could report incident to police and then they lean on the school...i told a parent to do this once and it worked !!

My understanding is they can only permanently exclude if there is another facility that can take him. You can’t just exclude and let the child stay at home or wander the streets.

Your main communication with the school needs to be about your child and how they are going to keep your child safe.

I guess when you’ve been on the receiving end of it you see things differently. If 29 children can’t be taught because one is throwing chairs or assaulting them then that is a massive waste of resources, would you prefer 30 children get nothing, or one child is removed and the other 29 can be safe and learn?

Something like this happened to my child. DDs class had a disproportionate percentage of children who had additional needs. DD has developmental trauma, which because it did not affect her academically, they did not properly support her around her own SEMH and sensory issues. Most of the other children were behind academically, and there was lots of disruptive, and challenging behaviour. These children got all the support, as well as help to obtain EHCPs.

Anyway, DDs play therapist raised concerns over the transition from KS1 to 2. School said they would put things in place to help. We started off KS2 and very soon things went awry. Quite soon my DD started school refusing due to behavioural issues of other students. I sought support from school. They weren't really interested in helping beyond telling me to try and get her in even if she was late. They didn't seem to understand that we needed to tackle why she didn't want to attend. When I pressed this, I was told they couldn't change the way the school was, unfortunately.

About 5 weeks into autumn term. one of the children had a massive meltdown that was so bad they had to evacuate all the other children from the classroom and contain the child in the classroom until their mother could come and get them.

DD came out of school terrified (was triggered due to her trauma) and refused to attend school the next day. She said that she did not feel safe. When I spoke to school about it, they told me I needed to remove my child and either home educate her or find another school for her to go to.

All the primary schools around here are over subscribed. My own child was moved to this area and forced to go to that particular primary school because of safeguarding reasons meaning we were compulsory moved to a new area and that was the school that had a space (it is a school in a deprived area with a high number of children with challenging circumstances).

So I had no choice but to deregister her and immediately start home educating her. It is such a shame as DD is an only child and enjoyed the social aspect of seeing her friends at school and opportunities to do things as a team/ group. She has since told me that she feels she was pushed out by this other child and that she didn't matter enough for the school to try and find a way to help her stay.

The burden has then fallen on me to not only educate my child, but to also ensure she is able to socialise with children her age. I am financially responsible for all her educational expenses. I already pay for her weekly play therapy. I am on benefits!

It's a bizarre situation.

Neither.

I’d prefer that all 30 children were able to learn.

The 29 by being in a safer environment, and the chair thrower by being in a suitable one, and not just “babysat until they sign on.”

That way everyone gets an education and gets the support they need.

Surely that’s the best outcome, rather than essentially “holding pen for the angry”?

I tbink the summary is it is possible to permanently exclude a primary school child, but it is difficult epeciallu when they are in kinship care. As a PP said, primary pupil referral units exist and indeed I know someone who used to be the head of one.

OP I think you need to focus on the fact that the school has a duty to protect all children (and staff) and that does not seem to be happening here.

Attacking 29 children won’t fix the 1 child who does it.

Exactly.

Or better yet, children who clearly aren't capable of coping in mainstream attending specialist provision from the off. Not forcing them in mainstream and just kicking it down the line which just makes everyone miserable.