Animal cruelty - lack of support on threads

[theyhavenovoice]

so am posting here because I’ve tried on other threads ( keep getting moved). In light of the last few days and what we’re learning. Testing on animals/ Beagles in the UK. I’m feeling heartbroken and have been so unaware. Anyone else?

There are alternatives with a better success rate than animal trials. All medication has to have human trials anyway. 92% of all medicines that pass animal trials fail human trials.

The alternatives need publicising, and regulatory backing

• Liver Toxicity Prediction: The Emulate Liver-Chip demonstrated an 87% sensitivity and 100% specificity in identifying drug-induced liver injury (DILI). In comparison, animal models often show only a 19% correlationwith human toxicity outcomes.
• Cancer Drug Response: Patient-derived organoids on chips have achieved an 87% accuracy in predicting how colorectal cancer patients will respond to specific drugs.
• Disease Modeling: Pulmonary edema models on a chip achieved a predicted inhibition rate of 92%, exceeding the 85% accuracy of animal models.

Will you be volunteering? Fine to volunteer helpless animals though??

Also you know the meaning of the word volunteer is the opposite of forced, yes?

How long have you been vegan OP?

Please don't attack me. The end game was to ask for help dealing with something that caused me great distress this morning. (although I'm not sorry I saw it, clearly I needed to see it to make me realise the true cost of what we are doing)

I also take a drug (humira) for life. I know know that was tested, so I am not judging you at all. In fact I am in the same boat as you.

I don't know why this article and photos this morning has had this really powerful effect (as opposed to all the years of anti-animal testing info I have been exposed to in my life). But for some reason, this one, today, at this time, has really got to me.

They upset me for a long time those images. And I refrained from posting them on another board. But I thought the poster calling the article frothing needed to be corrected and called out for their dismissal of the article

3 days, 5 hours and 45 minutes

I know! I can't concentrate on anything else since

I didn't get past the first image in the article and the first paragraph. I haven't looked further. I haven't the stomach.

Honestly really struggling. I must be having some kind of watershed moment.

I also am alive because of pharmaceuticals tested on animals. I don’t like it. Everybody who is concerned about this makes the incremental changes that they can do. One thing leads to another and there is growing awareness.

All I can do is raise awareness and campaign for the alternatives. One of which is this:

https://www.animalfreeresearchuk.org/dr-hadwen-trust-becomes-animal-free-research/

This

OP you have been very naive up to this point then. Animal testing has been around forever. Fortunately things like cosmetics are now predominently not animal tested, but you could argue, that is off the back of the ingredients already being tested long ago.

Pharmaceuticals have all been tested on animals. Alternatives are coming, and many pharma companies strive to use animals as little as possible. Human trials are obviously a thing, and many altruistic people, often pharma and research folk, step up and test drugs on themselves. Thank God for them.

Would you put yourself forward for a trial OP??

I would like to see testing of human drugs being done on our most evil prisoners rather than animals. One our scientific members explained once that it's quite hard to do that for lots of valid reasons which I can't actually remember other than lifespans being shorter for animals which is important to get results over life.

It Probably has something to do with the fact that it would be a massive human rights violation.

Maybe some of these billions in profits should be used to find alternates to torturing animals.

We need stronger animal protection in this country all round including farming and slaughter as well as testing

I don't think saying "you're naive/silly/stupid for not knowing about this before, been around for ages etc"

Of course it has been around, of course people were aware of it, etc etc

But surely it's better to say "well done for realising the impact (and presumably preparing to get involved)" rather than "you're late you idiot"

Plenty of people have a realisation or reckoning of things at all different times. That's ok.

This is a really poor example/comparison. But I love classical music.
When someone (tentatively) says "So I listened to some thing called "Chopin" and I don't know much about it but it was kind of nice? Classical music is kind of cool no?..."

I say "oh yes! there's so much more to listen to, come in I am so pleased you're here"
not
"classical music has been there the whole time you idiot. what were you listening to before?? drake?"

As I say - very clumsy example and I am not comparing listening to Drake to Animal Testing, (!!!) but do you see what I mean? People discover things all the time having known they were there, it doesn't mean they care any less when they (eventually) have a moment?

Ni I won't be because I can accept that - for the next while - animal testing will exist.

I'm not happy about it and I will join any campaign that seriously wants to make, say, the beagles conditions much better.

Sometimes we have to accept that bad things are done in our names.

YABU for thinking that everyone is as interested and engaged with the same issues as you are.

What prompted the change?

Oh, me?
The DM article is specifically targeted at WLI, 80% + of which are used by women. If you cannot see their goal, which is more women shaming, more guilt tripping, then more fool you. The language they use is deliberately inflammatory to get exactly the reaction this thread has provoked.

I am surprised that it is news to so many that dogs and primates are used in pharmaceutical research. Do people live under rocks? Does no one recall all the animal righs protestors in UK trying to get Huntingdon shut down? Which resulted in the UK having both the highest animal welfare standards in the world at the time, as well as the toughest legislation against animal rights extremists (because digging up people's dead grannies is extremel).

Every single medicine has been through animal testing, whether it is for humans or animals (what should medicines for pets be tested on?). I hope all those who are opposed to it remember their position when it is they or their family member who is dying and they decline anything which has been tested on animals.

As for using human volunteers, as some are advocating for, if you pay people, you are buying their consent. Which most on MN appear to be opposed to. And generally only attracts the desperate/impoverished.

It’s never justified.

"Every single medicine has been through animal testing, whether it is for humans or animals (what should medicines for pets be tested on?). I hope all those who are opposed to it remember their position when it is they or their family member who is dying and they decline anything which has been tested on animals."

@RedWineCupcakes I see what you're saying but

It's perfectly ok to accept the advances that have happened, because they have happened and there is nothing we can do about that. Those animals have suffered and are gone. And at the same time say "but this way of doing things needs to stop. we have alternatives, we need to use them (and accept the additional cost) or develop them quicker."

Look what happened in COVID when the entire medical world threw their weight behind something. We can do it surely?

That’s not true re cosmetics. We all need to get our facts straight. And learn more.
not offended by the naivety comment btw

Those posters who think it is never justified, if your child needed life saving medication which had been tested on animals, would you refuse that medication?

This issue is layered/ messy. It’s not a simple as saying if you take a medication or aren’t vegan you can’t be shocked at the practices that are cruel and wish there were other options. My naivety is based on the footage I’ve seen . I did not know.

Read this again. Anyway you’ve ‘engaged’

I think I’d volunteer some of the posters on this thread