AIBU for stopping a nice Muslim girl from showing my son her hair?

[BeSpoonyRedCat]

It was on Monday after school, 10 year old DS, a very traditional 10 year old Muslim girl, and another 10 year old girl from my son's school were in the living room.

DS asked to see the Muslim girl's hair and she was actually about to show him. I stopped her, nothing dramatic. I basically said no sweetie, don't do that. I wasn't loud. Both girls looked like they wanted to laugh while my son looked annoyed. After I finished dropping the girls home, my son was all moody.

Yesterday he was still moody and I asked why he's upset. He basically explained that the Muslim girl doesn't show any other kid her hair. I said there's a reason for that. And I'm thankful my son didn't ask me the reason because I actually don't know.

From my perspective, I was being a responsible adult with my son and 2 girls under my supervision. I don't know the ramifications of that little girl showing my son her hair. I don't know if her parents would have been upset with her. I don't know if her parents would have banned my son from being friends with her. But I'm still wondering if I was dramatic.

Am I being unreasonable?

Would you give a visiting Jewish child pork?

Thank god for women like you, there to reinforce the patriarchy when men arent.

Agree...in my experience the vast majority of moderate families won't even bring their children to class birthdays, let alone a playdate. So a strict family allowing this is very odd

Why would your son be so bothered about someone's hair? It's quite odd IMO. Does he also ask to see other bits of their bodies that they cover? If not then what's different about hair?

This all seems very odd to me. It that situation I wouldn't have told the girl not too do it - but I would have told my son to stop asking and that he was being really rude.

My DS14 (nearly 15) had a Muslim girlfriend this time last year who was exactly the same age as him, she covered her hair at school and as soon as she got in my house the hair cover was straight off. I did ask her about it, she explained her family were very relaxed, her mum is a single mum, very much the matriarch of the family. The GF was very much able to express her own opinions like most kids her age.
I don’t believe my son would have asked her to do it and I think if he had she would have told him where to go. It’s also her hair to do what she likes with.
I don’t know if you were unreasonable or not because I think it depends on the girl and her family.

I think what you did was lovely, OP.

The girl may have felt that she should show her hair when asked because she was in your home.

You showed her that it's ok to have boundaries.

As someone who used to get very uncomfortable when friends' parents would try to feed me cheeseburgers and ham sandwiches that I know I couldn't eat but didn't know how to say no to, thank you.

I just want to ask - when little girls (10 or even under) go out wearing the same lipstick and eyeshadow as mum, making their baby faces look bright/pretty/whatever, do we still assume it’s because mum and dad have forced them to follow their own behaviours?

Sadly, abusive parents who force girls to wear headscarves exist. I would never put a scarf on my own child especially at that age, if she wants to wear it as an adult/teenager then that’s up to her. However, painting every Muslim girl with the same brush of oppression and misogyny is also wrong and anti-feminist.

No - OP is being respectful of another culture. I would have done the same, but then checked with the parents if they minded that I had stepped in at this point, so that I would know what that family expects…

Of course, I would also make sure that the little girl didn’t get into any trouble - I would probably do that by speaking to the Mother, and would point out here that this situation, to a lot of people, won’t have been navigated before.

I think OP was just doing her best - no drama - but curious to see if others had faced this cultural tightrope, and I think she handled it well.

I have seen girls younger than 10 wearing hijab. Why are some saying it doesn't happen ? It tends to be African Muslims in my area.

That's your thoughts. Are you one of these people who think we in the UK know better? You don't have to agree with something to respect someone else's choice.

A little muslim girl said her scarf was too tight and asked me to help her loosen it a little and I'm going back over 23 years
Honestly, i was just about to do so when the form teacher screamed (yes really) and completely pushed me away from her; apparently I couldve been charged with assault for touching her head.
So dont never ever touch a headscarf ever

It sounds like you can’t see a problem with this. A little girl should not be made to wear a headscarf at all. Preventing adults from helping to make her comfortable is just cruel.

Why would anyone support that?

Did you know that the abusive parents of Sara Sharif hid her injuries at school with a hijab before she was finally murdered?

Surely child welfare should come first and not be compromised by being forced to wear items that we are regularly told us not even a religious requirement?

Why so keen to support customs imported from countries where it is used as a tool of oppression for women?

Did he persuade or coerce or did he ask? If this child is allowed agency over her own body then why was she not allowed to choose whether to show her hair or not?

Why is it ‘white western ignorance and arrogance’ to criticise the use of head coverings for women which are used as a tool of oppression against women across the world.

Women in Afghanistan are now only allowed to see out of one eye when out in public. Women in several Islamic countries are regularly punished, beaten and even murdered for not submitting to this oppression.

It has been used in Western schools as a form of bullying (more radical Muslim students putting pressure on other Muslims and non Muslims).

It was reportedly used to hide the long term abuse of Sara Sharif and prevent normal safeguarding procedures from protecting her from being murdered.

Many Muslim women and women of colour are fighting against this sort of oppression - why are you attacking ‘white women’?

We are regularly told that head coverings are not religious requirement - they should not be allowed for children or in schools as they are divisive and potentially harmful for children.

We are a country with Christian based Western values. There are lots of countries that allow/enforce hijab/niqab that people can choose from if that is how they wish to live their lives.

Yes and this is one of them. This is a country where women can choose how they dress. The issue here is how much of what a child wears should be up to a child, and how much to the parent.

Oh and women having to cover their hair and bodies fits beautifully with "Christian-based values" which have been used to oppress women for centuries which is why such values should be forcibly shoved up the arse of those that espouse them.

Yes, this label of ‘nice Muslim girl’ is interesting. Why is ‘nice’ the word that OP selected and what are the implications?

Interestingly, I have only heard this phrase used by Muslim families themselves in order to differentiate with the ‘not nice’ or less ‘well behaved’ non Muslim girls. DDs Muslim friends are very limited in who they are allowed to hang out with.

This is a differentiation widely reported by rape gang victims as well. They were targeted because they were white and seen as a legitimate target.

I think you probably embarrassed her! It wasn’t your place to tell her to keep her hair covered.

Appalling edict in the first place. Poor girl!

This.

Rules are different depending on the sex. Very middle age feel and very unequal.

Is girls hair particularly awful to show off whereas boys hair not so. Strange practice still going of modesty for girls and shame if shown as if showing your hair is wrong. It isn't, billions of people show their hair all the time. It is the sexualisation of children, anyone tempted by a female child is sick and needs treatment.

Imagine getting into trouble for merely showing the hair on her head. Poor children living under that type of draconian rule.

Christian-based values" which have been used to oppress women for centuries which is why such values should be forcibly shoved up the arse of those that espouse them.

So you reject our Christian based legal system and values about fair play and being a positive contributor to society?

There are no current Christian based requirements for women to cover their hair and bodies excessively in the UK, nor should there be any for any other religion.

Yes and this is one of them.

maybe at present but given the increasing numbers coming here and covering up and the issues it causes in society, that will need to be reviewed quite soon. At the very least, as a free (ish) democratic (ish) society I don’t think we should be enabling the import of a tool used to oppress millions of women throughout the world.

We can’t know which women are doing this out of pure free will and how many are doing this because of coercion (worries about being viewed as not ‘nice’ or not a ‘good Muslim’ in their community) to outright abuse where non English speaking women are brought into this country and kept isolated by men who keep them covered as their property. You just have to look on social media to see these men only discussing how they keep their multiple wives away from other men.

Its a properly lovely thing that you did. You protected her. Even if she was ok with it, its nice to know a parent in the community is happy to let her know the boundaries are there for her if she wants them.

Plenty round here and not African Muslims. In my DD’s private girls school. At least a few in every year group from about age 7 upwards. Personally I can’t stand it - there seem to be more and more girls covering up. I think it’s appalling and has no place in our society and I don’t really care if that’s not PC. Frankly more people in the UK should be objecting to it, we are so live and let live here and it will be to our detriment.

The correct response would have been for OP to tell her son that he should not be asking anyone, whether male or female, to remove items of clothing. It's about the son knowing what he should do, how he should behave, not about a female protecting her modesty, which is what hijab is about.

Would you be happy with someone telling you what to wear or not?

Who is telling these girls that they have to cover up? Why is it OK if it's cultural or religious, when those who don't are often thought to be 'immodest' if they don't? There have been honour killings in the UK when females don't conform.

would I only serve pork? No.

Would I tell the child to eat pork? No.

would I prevent the child from eating pork? No.

its not my job to enforce beliefs. Unless there is a medical restriction, the child gets to make their own choices.