At my wits end with DD5

[vanillachoc]

DD can be a major arsehole when we are out. And it’s very much the majority of the time - I’ve been battling this for years and she just won’t stop. She runs away from me during school pickup, across the playground and then once I manage to lure her out (only by peer pressure from her sensible friends walking out on their own like perfect angels) she runs without stopping across multiple roads. It’s fucking infuriating. Nobody else’s kids do it. I can’t run after her as I always have DS (5 months) in the pram. Before that me or DH would just have to bomb it after her, pick her up and carry her home screaming. She also does it in the park when it’s time to leave, will just run away laughing until I drag her out by the wrist, and then she hangs onto the railings and won’t move. Can no longer carry her due to having the pram and her weight. Pretending to go without her doesn’t work either - she’ll just say bye and run off. I’ve gotten to the end of the path before and she doesn’t care. I’ve taken things off of her, threatened xyz, this kid doesn’t give a toss. I’m at the point where I feel terrified to go outside with her. I’ve tried using reins and wrist links to embarrass her and make her walk sensibly - she just lays down or stands there and refuses to move. She’s an angel at school and for everyone else, except with us. I don’t know what to do. Her behaviour has been awful since she turned 2.

AIBU to just want to run away myself?

You already said the wrist strap just leads to her lying down or refusing to move so it doesn't seem like a very suitable solution unfortunately.

We had this with my DS though he was younger. We did spend a lot of time just standing with him being REALLY REALLY BORING (see above, take a book) and eventually he would move.
Trying to move him just made him fight, if he just lay down nobody got hurt though it did lead to some comments from passersby "is he OK?" yes, he's OK, just very stubborn.
This was mainly around the time we wanted DD in the buggy and him on a buggy board so we gave him great praise for stepping on the buggy board, then riding a few steps etc. A great day came when he saw a friend (they were about 4, DD about 18 months) and said "look T, look at me, I'm riding on the buggy board!"
NGL, it was a really long and hard road but we made progress this way.

My DD masks at school and did at nursery as well. I actually dread them telling me she's had a really good day as I know it'll mean a big explosion when we get home.

I just cannot fathom why anyone would do this. It's absolute madness. If my child refused to move they'd be carried or dragged screaming. I'm not standing around like a fool whilst they lay on the floor.

DD was EXACTLY like this - she now has a diagnosis of combined ADHD and is medicated.

Probably by all the parents of ill behaved children.

And in a country where it’s within the law…? 🤷🏻‍♀️

And that’s your choice. You asked what other people would do in situation, and some of us would smack.

My third was like this. Ran across roads, just no sense of danger, she was part squirrel, I swear. We'd be mid conversation and she'd just get distracted and tear off, refuse to listen when I told her to stop.

I smacked her in the end. Was a last resort but it worked. I only had to do it twice, I figure it hurt her less than a bus running her over.

You can't really think smacking a disregulated child helps them manage their emotions? You do it because you've never been taught to regulate yours and your child is a physical outlet for your anger in the moment. You're not doing it to parent the DC.

And anyway, not all children stop the behaviour when that happens. Especially not when it is your first solution to a problem. They become numb to it, just like DC of shouting parents do. When my Dad hit me, I would fight back. It was never a solution as we BOTH then very angry and dysregulated so we both escalated.

As @Balloonhearts has also just said, it’s not ideal but rather that than being hit and killed by a car or a bus!

If it works, which it probably won't. You assault your child infront of lots of parents on a busy school run. Your DC becomes MORE dysregulated and and on top of that you notice lots of very angry parents staring, making the situation 10x harder or maybe even intervening. What then?

I can assure you it wouldn't, being as how it's perfectly legal in England.

I'd rather give her a crack across the bum than pick out flowers for her funeral.

It is not legal to leave a mark, which I'm sure a 'crack' would do. Not to mention you can lose custody for things that you may not go to prison for.

I mean firstly I'd go back to the reins/ wrist strap as a matter of urgency.

This though going to park after school is also good idea.

ND wise I'd read up about ADHD - see if that fits at all though she may just be determined.

I had to insist the DC walked with me hand on pushchair or in mine- and DD1 had a friend same age who run ahead across roads in front of cars - and her Mum would moan her DD wasn't like mine. Then that Mum and her DH would tell my DCs it was fine to not hold pushchair and run ahead as it was safe - my kids knew not to listen.

Consistent messaging was key to my kids behaving often when they were tired and even upset no just once as they'd expect it every time - and they did try that boundary as toddlers but I needed them to do that so was very consistant and yes sometimes had to carry - put in pushchair or wait it out - but they held my hand or the pushchair ever time - even when I was tried and busy. It helped they'd had reins and backpacks reins before that to help enforce it as well.

Few occaions they did try running off they were back in pushchair or reins till I felt they could be trusted again however upset that made them.

Didn't need to smack.

Do you make all your parenting decisions based on how other parents or bystanders might respond?

I think the idea of treats could be a good place to start when you want to remove the reins. 'If you walk nicely to that tree you get a chocolate button' and so on. Maybe a sticker chart for walking home nicely each day and remind them regularly over the walk home. I find lots of praise works well for my two. 'Remember if you walk home nicely you'll get a sticker' 'you're walking so well' 'nearly there then you've earned your sticker' 'everyone is going to be so impressed with how nicely you walked home'. We have a choosing box for when they get so many stickers.

Absolutely not but if I am doing something in public that horrified or disgusts lots of people I would likely think I may be the problem. Plus I'd like to keep custody of my DC and have a good relationship with them through life.

Go back to basics.
Wrist strap at all time.
Start with a short walk, just you and her. Full attention. Do the basics.
Then do it on a weekend at the school gate, do it a few times, praise everything that goes well, the smallest thing.
Do it with an empty buggy.
Then do a shop.
Then do the park.
Then do all these things but with your little one in the buggy.
Then do the park with a friend and child (where you won't feel judged ending the playdate early).
Remove screens.
Get a sticker chart or star jar.
Have a treat day, for us if we have a good week we go to the sweet shop on a Monday afterschool.
I think routine, consistency and praise is really important.
My son is 7 and being investigated for ADHD and this was what I still have to do with him for some situations, but he is used to our practice runs, a bit like when you toilet train, that he now asks for a trial run to help him because he also notices when he's all fizzy and feels out of control.

Hopefully there is a big enough hint for you to have time to grab and put the wrist strap on before she legs it into the road!

I think the wrist strap should go on straight away leaving nothing to chance.

Wear the baby and strap her into a pram. Tell her if she's going to act like a baby she can be treated like one. You can get escape proof straps. Use it a week, offer her an opportunity to walk nicely. If she pratts about she goes back in the pram for a week.

She's going to get run over like this, or kidnapped.

My autistic 5yo DS masks. He has only had 1 meltdown in school but has had many before and after.

I would talk to the school and arrange to collect her from the office not the classroom. Put a buggy board on your pram and make her stand on that. Possibly ask the school if they would talk to her about how her behaviour is unsafe in the school playground and until she is showing safe behaviour she can't leave the classroom with the rest of the kids. My school would certainly help you with this

Running into roads is incredibly dangerous. You can't allow this, and I hate it when people say that to parents because sometimes it's not that simple, but when there is a very real risk of death ( let's not minimise it, there absolutely is a real risk she will be killed and a risk of causing serious harm to others through a car accident) it's just not optional. Put the wrist strap on, yes you will likely be late, the baby may become stressed waiting but the consequences of running in the road far outweigh the consequences of her refusing to move.
It does sound like she is ND or has some type if learning difficulty. A typical 5 year old understands the risk of running in the road and can control their impulses enough to keep themselves safe, the behaviour your DD is displaying is more like that of a toddler.

There has to be something in the middle of 'smack her' and 'get her diagnosed' surely? She's 5: is there a way to talk to her extremely seriously about this?