AIBU to worry that my adult daughter is keeping her distance?

[Lowenn]

Hi all, my eldest DD is 25.
She moved away for university in France in 2018. After her degree, she did her masters in Italy which lasted 2 years, since then she has lived in Geneva and briefly Lisbon.
Every time she goes through a break up, she seems to move cities entirely.
We haven’t properly seen her since Easter of 2024, so 2 years.
We tried to go and visit her without messaging first, she said she was too busy to even stop for lunch or dinner. We basically spent about 15 minutes with her, that was last year.
She sent a message afterwards saying that she did not appreciate us turning up without being invited and if we did it again she wouldn’t be so kind.
We have asked many times when we can go visit, she always says she’s too busy. We have asked her to come visit us, too busy. When my mum died last year, she sent flowers and a card, didn’t even call, didn’t come to the funeral.

Now I’ve been worried for a while, but she seems to be doing well and I thought maybe this was just her spreading her wings. I try to call her once a month. The last 2 have been really short.
Finally this afternoon she picked up, I asked how Geneva was, and she replied oh didn’t I tell you I moved back to Paris, in January!!
I asked for her new address as I send cards and presents. She didn’t reply.
I messaged her after the call asking for it again, she said she would rather not give it this time as she doesn’t trust us not to show up unprompted.

I am terribly worried, she had a good childhood, we have very good relationships with our two younger children, I don’t understand what’s gone wrong.

AIBU to be worried, what do I do?

I agree that the OPs daughter has repeatedly abandoned situations, places, relationships, family by moving on each time with a scorched earth approach but all of this ‘fleeing’ won’t help her find her sense of self …. It’s an unhealthy avoidance of herself and shows poor emotional coping skills. We are an integration of our emotions, our internal world and the external relationships we build, adapt to, and/or move on from. Im not going to comment if the OP is the sole source of a trauma - but her DDs seemingly inability to tolerate change, disappointment, distress repeatedly indicates a vulnerability and issue with resilience. Is she leaving friends, acquaintances, social networks behind each time she flits after an intimate relationship fails - or does she not build these in the first place? These are important foundations for our emotional scaffolding and the DD seems to be without these - unless she is great at creating new communities quickly each time ahe moves?

So I am perhaps a little like your daughter. My ex DH is the same as well, but I appreciate we are the minority.

The fact that she went abroad for uni is quite telling, for starters.

It's very possible that she wanted to get away from were she grew up, be someone else, reinvent herself, not have a back story/ be the person she used to be. Not that there was anything particularly wrong with her past or you, but interestingly as you mention anorexia, this and the places/people associated to that may be something she wishes to leave behind, for example. I don't know her so really can't guess.

For me, a couple of points, and I daren't fully spell them out to my parents, although they keep pushing:

• Hate being back at my childhood home or even the city. I feel so claustrophobic, it brings back all the wrong memories. Whenever I'm there a few days, I write pages of diary entries about how I'm so glad I left and why I'd do anything to never have to go back. Just feel trapped and scared of the person I could have become if I'd stayed
• Generally live a forward-looking life, I don't like to go back in any sense. For example, living in the same city continuously or returning - not for me
• In all honesty family time to me feels like the biggest chore - I'll push through a few hours, push down the stress I feel, really manage my feelings and behaviours, and when it's over I feel like a weight has lifted off my shoulders. I honestly thought everyone felt like that and this was normal, but I have learned that actually lots of people seem to enjoy it and it's their safe/happy place

Hard to exactly pinpoint why. Since a young age there was always a desire to be someone completely different to who my parents and people around were. They did not seem fulfilled, didn't seem to find deep meaning and fulfilment in their day-to-day. I wanted more, wanted meaning, legacy. Found it hard to relate to kids around me as I had made different choices from a young age (high performance path). I was also a depressive teen.

The moment I properly left home, I just became a better version of me in every sense. A bit like a dog let off the chain. Free. Happy. Lighter.

I'm thriving, living the life I always wanted, my mental health is excellent, I'm away from all the cultural and social influences I felt trapped by. Also, as a young woman, living abroad is really liberating. You feel like the rules don't apply to you, that nobody can 'put you in your place' in terms of how to behave. I mean that in the sense of going after what's yours in the workplace, for example. You're not put in your box like the people from that country are (e.g. class system in Britain/ accent/ schooling).

Frankly I don't want memories of where I'm from to be a part of who i am now. I want to be someone else and not look back.

I'll definitely look after my parents when they're old etc, they're welcome to come live with me, but I don't think they understand who I am at all. It's like explaining microchips to a Martian.

Why I mentioned my ex DH? He feels this country has allowed him to be who he is, he disagrees with everything in his home country from politics to culture to you-name-it. He'll go back once every 3 years at a push and just sits at his parents' house all week as he's there to meet his obligations as the child.

Some people just want to put their childhood etc behind them and embrace their adult identity. This may mean reduced contact with parents sometimes, as they were a big part of that past chapter.

Don't push her and force her back in. She may well actually not want to come back to the UK/ your town for her own, sometimes intangible reasons. She might actually not know why, it could be just a feeling. It could actually be difficult feelings in relation to the last 10 years in UK politics, given she clearly lives a strong European identity and works in politics. This definitely played a big part in my decision to leave Denmark, I even refused to admit I was Danish for a while.

I'd suggest 2 things:

• Try to meet her on neutral grounds so it doesn't feel like 'visiting family'. Maybe meet up with her somewhere where neither of you lives, for an occassion she genuinely can't resist because it may align with her interests/ passions
• Do not judge her and tell her what she should be. Take an actual interest in what she's into, ask her, go deep, get her to talk about her work, the cities she's lived in. Actively hold back your own opinion and prejudice. Get to know the person she has become without you, don't assume you know her.

You may actually find her obnoxious and self-important (I know I am). However, she's still yours, and too old to parent. If you want her in your life now, you have to accept you're getting the person she's become, not who you think she is.

Apologies for the therapy essay but hope it helps with understanding that the reasons could be many, and not something you did.

Firstly I feel for you. We have a 28 yo, understand it’s a bit of empty nest syndrome along with worrying something isn’t right when you can’t get ahold of them.

Our DD lives and works o/s and a time zone different to us.

Not long after she moved into her 2nd rental she didn’t ‘appear’ on line for over 48 hours which was incredibly unusual. I sent a couple of messages asking her to check in, didn’t hear back and started to worry.

eventually I plucked up the courage to ask a work mate if they had seen her. They hadn’t but offered to go to her new rental and check.

When they got there her car was at home but she was not answering the door. They too left her messages to get in contact and offered to go back later that day and break in.

eventually DD saw all the messages and made contact. She had gone walking with another work colleague and out of range. So we had ‘that’ talk… she wasn’t impressed but I think the work colleague, being a mum herself, might have had a gentle word too.

I’ve always used messenger not telephoning for day to day type newsy stuff. She doesn’t necessarily get into detail but sends a thumbs up depending on her availability.

We only call for birthdays and when something not so nice occurs such as a pet dying. We realise at times it’s just not possible for DD to be available so found messenger a good way to stay in touch and not intrusive.

I also respect that there were things in my younger years I wouldn’t have wanted my parents to know so apply that to DD as well.

we don’t ask about boyfriends or such like, figuring if someone important comes her way she will let us know.

We have a key to her final home should there ever be a need (or when I visit and can let myself in, we work out together when that suits) but DD, in having ‘that’ talk back to me said I really need to make plans on activities when I visit that we can do together.

Generally that means we will do a shopping trip or be day tourists and see things neither have seen before and go out for dinner.

that seems to work well for both DD and myself.

I hope this helps in some way.

This is very insightful.

My exH is a recovering alcoholic. Hasn't had a drink since 1997, long before I met him. But the MH problems that made him drink are still there. Obsessive, distorted thinking, perfectionism, anxiety, a desire to control things in his life excessively, anger issues, really really hard on himself. I believe the phrase for it is a "dry drunk". Maybe a similar thing exists with anorexia, where someone can eat normally, but MH issues, and like you say, a compulsion for control, are still there.

I will never understand how as an adult you must be in contact with your parents all the time to ease their anxiety. Going hiking for 2 days but not told your parents? Receive a talking to!

They are your feelings to handle. Why not take it as an opportunity to try and do that instead of putting an adult child in its place and create an obligation to give a thumbs up at the earliest opportunity? I get its worrying, but this shouldn't be put onto another human.

I worked to ease my parents 'worry' my whole life. It was exhausting and I could never relax.

It sounds like you and your family were just a really bad fit. That's a shame. I have more than one friend who just seemed to be allergic to her family and home, for no reason that I could see. So I don't think it's that uncommon. Actually, I can think of four people off the top of my head who never really came home again after leaving for uni at 18 and seemed totally uninterested in their parents ever after. This has remained consistent over decades. I know/knew them all quite well and none have ever spoke poorly of their home lives or parents, and their parents all seemed nice. They just seemed to have this aversion to their parents and childhood home and hometown that you're describing. And they came from a beautiful town and they all had gorgeous houses.

So yeah, this desire to get as far away from their backgrounds as possible does seem to be a thing, and maybe there is some particular psychology around it, but I do feel very sorry for the parents in these situations. Assuming the parents parented in good faith and did their best, I can't imagine the heartbreak. Can't imagine carrying a dear little baby and loving it so much that you'd die for it, raising it, and nurturing it, and then when it grows up, it doesn't want to know you. And you can think of no reason why. It's a rough card to have been dealt for those parents.

Are parents allowed to just not like their children too? Just wondering, once they're adults, would it be OK to low level ghost them because they're just not likeable or interesting or whatever?

I know you weren't talking about yourself btw! Just something I was wondering.

It breaks my heart as well.

My ex is also a long time recovering alcoholic, so solidarity there ❤️ He’s managed it very well and not displaying controlling behaviour, but he’d still be a nightmare to live with. Yes, your last sentence is what I think is happening with OP’s dd.

I have to agree I'm sorry OP: it was an ambush.

When people are seeming to want to keep their distance, ambushing them is probably the worst approach. Even in a normal relationship, it would annoy most people to have people turn up in a different city totally unannounced with the intention of seeing you. It is kind of gate-crashing the relationship.

As for what is up, I have known a similar situation before (when I was a child) and it was a son who was gay and thought his father wouldn't accept that, though I'd expect that particular example is far less likely in this day and age. But I suppose it could be something else along those lines - working in a role she feels you would object to and can't come clean?

Lots of parents walk away from children.
Just think about how many parents lose touch with their children after they split with the other parent?
And how many parents basically "throw out" their children when they get to 18?
And how many parents have their own lives that don't involve their children?
How many parents basically only see their children at Christmas?

A 5 minute perusal of MN will give you a huge number of examples of all of the above.

Yes this sounds likely. And you turning up unannounced was literally the worst thing for a “control” person.

Im sorry OP. It must be so hard.

Thankfully my parents aren't like this at all. Always and still supporting me and siblings. Letting me live rent free and bill free. Cooking my favourite foods.

I don’t have a psychiatrist but my psychologist would say the same and my friends think it’s a miracle that I’m a remotely functioning adult.

as for me telling my parents why I’m very LC why should I put myself in that position of vulnerability. They’ll be defensive, argumentative and blame me. I know it was them, I deserve better and I’m allowed to protect my peace.

I do agree with you and it's a thing. I'm from Denmark and constantly get asked 'but whyyyy would you leave?' as the perception is that life may be better there. When I do go back, I do see that generally quality of life and opportunities might be better there, but I just have such strong memories of feeling unhappy and constrained that I can't shake it off. I almost detach and visit as a tourist.

I was just reading a thread about parents that aren't interested in their kids' life achievements and want them to be something else, and felt so seen. To give you an example, I was a guest on a 2-hour live broadcast with huge viewership back in Denmark. I thought my mum would be proud. I got back to her and she said she watched 5 mins and then went to bed, and that 'other guests looked 'less done up'' and my hair looked weird.

She's mostly proud of me when I bake a pie or something 😂Even as young child, I wanted to do ballet and gymnastics, and she pushed me into an entirely different direction and didn't allow me a say in my interests or even friends. As a teen I pushed back hard and didn't allow her to control me anymore.

It sounds like control may be a topic in the OP's daughter's life. She may feel like she's finally in control (being an elite athlete means everyone is giving advice and directions constantly, coaches, parents etc), and being around her family may make her feel like she's losing that hard-won control and ownership.

I feel it would be difficult for the OP's daughter to articulate anything like that to her, as she may not even see it clearly herself yet, and these are complex, taboo topics.

Sorry for the trauma dumping 😂

Obvioulsy I can't speak for your friends. Personally I see my parents about 30 full days a year and speak once a week, which is not too bad I don't think? We usually go for a week's holiday and have a genuinely good time, I just prefer to meet somewhere that's not my home or their home. We do share some interests,such as art and classical music, so we try to focus on that and avoid deeper things as it'll inevitably end in conflict.

When your daughter has children, if she ever does, she may realise that no parent is perfect and maybe that she is not perfect either

This so clearly illustrates the divide between people who had abusive parents v those that did not.

when I became a mother my heart broke for the child I was. The pain that my mother chose to inflict on me was compounded by the knowledge that I would never treat my babies that way.

As they have grown and I have had to navigate the terrible twos; tween tantrums; teenage anger and angst; their transition to adulthood and beyond, at every step I have realised that not only were my parents not perfect, they were cruel and deliberately abusive.

Yes absolutely the same here. My parents repeatedly said to me "when you have your own children you will understand".

Actually having my own children made me understand even less how my parents could have treated me how they did, and highlighted that their behaviour was even worse than I'd realised.

I think the anorexia is probably the link to what happened. it's possible that your and her memories of that time are completely different. She may be incredibly angry/hurt with you. Or just desperate to get away from the intense supervision and interactions. I have friends who have recovered but some of the anger at their family justified or not is still with them. Give her the space she is demanding. See if she will come to you with time.

TBH I think parents ghosting or rejecting children is always another thing entirely - and almost always morally indefensible.

The first reason is as parents we took on the decision to have the child. Children have no say in this process: they just get "happened." I believe that taking that decision needs to have the importance and commitment ascribed to it that it deserves. You don't just create something then discard it. Once a parent, always a parent.

Second, it is the job of parents to strive to ensure their children grow up as interesting, responsible, likeable people. It's no use blaming the child. It's like a dog owner jettisoning a dog because it is badly trained.

I understand there can always be unusual situations - eg a parent who through illness has had to hand their child's upbringing over to an estranged partner or similar. But for the most part I see parenting as a case of make your bed and lie in it.

It’s impossible to draw any solid conclusion as not enough info. However, if I had to take a guess, it sounds like there could be covert narcissism at play here on the mums side.

The problem is that covert narcs often have no idea that they are a narcissist. In fact, often they would say the opposite. Covert narcissistic mums will often say they have done everything for their child and that there is no reason for them to cut contact. But, often the narcissism is in the detail and very subtly disguised as help. It builds until the child simply pulls back.

The dad may be enabling the mum and this is a particularly noxious set up that guarantees the child distancing themselves. A covert narcissist is exactly the type of person who turns up unannounced (and then plays victim when challenged).

The child often isn’t aware of the term covert narcissism but they just are acutely aware that they see a pattern of behaviours that over time build resentment. They usually figure it out eventually but often by the time they are middle aged. The chances of ever restoring the relationship are nil unless the narc mum is able to acknowledge & admit the narcissistic personality and seek professional help to change. Narcissists age very poorly with the behaviour often worsening so if this is what is really going on here, then you’ve lost your daughter for good.

Be honest with yourself and really think about the situation as the future of your relationship with your daughter is at stake.

Been reading through the rest of the thread with interest and thought of the anorexia/ 'I am worried about you' discourse, too.

My mum says 'I am worried about you' regularly and that's one of the things that makes me go 0 to 100 inside. On the outside, I just leave the room to cool down, as the opposite would be reacting/getting angry and expressing it.

My mum's convinced I had anorexia when I was 13. 13 - that's 20+ years ago. So she watches my every mouthful, even when she's not commenting.

She seems to have mild health and other anxiety when it comes to me. Constantly asking about dentist visits, annual health checks, suspicious of my levels of exercise, whether they are high or low, I really could go on.

The thing is, I am a highly functional adult. No health issues, touch wood, manage my finances very well and even help others, no problematic boyfriend, I'm very good at my job, I'm happy. I may be hyperindependent, but everyone has their issues.

I don't want her to worry about me. I'd like her to accept that she raised a functional adult that doesn't need help with everyday life.

To end on on a positive, I feel like as we've gotten older and have both grown, she's actually asking me for help with her things, admitting that I may actually have knowledge about some topics. And instead of picking me apart, she does actually sometimes say 'I'm glad you've turned out the way you have, I'm glad I don't have to deal with the stuff that some of my friends do with their kids, and that you seem to actually have friends and support network that have your back'.

As a child that didn't want to be a burden for their parents, that's literally all I want to hear.

It's important for me to hear 'I don't worry about you, you're an adult and you're doing just fine, I can see you've got your life handled'

Perhaps your daughter just wants you to accept her as an adult, and not have you always define her as an anorerix teen who could relapse anytime and needs your help. Maybe coming from a placed of 'I'm worried' is not the best approach to start a dialogue.

Bit harsh to ghost (low level or otherwise) your own children because you don’t find them interesting 😮

@BunnyLake Yes, it's very harsh and I doubt that many parents could do this. But it does seem that it's acceptable for adult children to low level ghost their parents/not get in contact for months. I don't think that's pleasant behaviour if it's simply because you view them as slightly boring or because you're busy and can't be bothered. Obviously it's different if parents were genuinely abusive.

You’ve missed the point entirely of my example to the OP. It’s not the activity that was concerning, it was the ‘disappearing’ which was outside of normal behaviour, along with the new move to a new to her area and our inability due to distance to ensure (she) was alive and well and not in the hands of some maniac..

This is what I feel. Some people seem to enjoy just not being in touch with family and think it's cool to abandon them