to believe a "stranger" over my son about abuse

[QuaintAquaTraybake]

DS (he is 21) has always been difficult, as has my relationship with him. He was a challenging child and then a challenging teenager. The behavior he displayed in his early to mid teens ranged from mild acting out (silly fights, occasionally skipping classes to smoke with older boys) to stealing, lying and manipulating his family and others. DH and I did what we felt was best for him as parents. The whole lot, therapy, counseling, "consistency consistency consistency". We felt things were improving at one point in his late teens,as he approached the prospect of going to university and doing his own thing, but now I feel we may simply have been blind to it, or he became better at hiding this mean streak, who knows.

He was in a relationship with a young woman, who I'll refer to as A (24) for convenience, for nearly two years. I have grown very fond of A. She reminds me a great deal of myself at her age. Big dreams but like everyone does she has her struggles. Notably, low self worth. I was very much the same. The only difference between her and I is I had a loving family when I was struggling. A has only had my son, and by extension, us.
Two weeks ago A turned up at our house in tears. DH and I took her in and tried to comfort her as best we could, but she begged us not to let DS know. She also wouldn't say what was going on, at least until my husband had gone to bed. Once it was just the two of us she told me everything.

What she has told me, and what I saw for myself, the cigarette burns on her arms and thighs, bruises, marks, it is awful. He would lock her in their dresser for hours, humiliate her in various ways over trivial disagreements... I cried hearing it and seeing it. I have told DS I want nothing to do with him unless he tells us the truth. DS, however, insists things are not as she describes them. To cut a very long story short, he claims their relationship was healthy and what she calls abuse now are "kinky activities" which she willingly agreed to throughout their two years together. For example, he admits he did indeed put cigarettes out on her, "lightly" beat her when they were intimate, engaged in "degrading acts" because "she likes it, we both like it."

So now DS and I are not speaking, and DH and I are completely at odds. DH refuses to entertain the thought our son could/would/has done something so vile. And he has told me outright he is ashamed of me for taking "some stranger's" claims over those of our own flesh and blood. I tell him why I believe her, he says there is no hard evidence. I say well my own eyes are hard evidence, the bruises and marks I saw on that girl are NOT the result of an ordinary couple engaging in consensual sex, those are not signs of mutual sexual pleasure. And that if he truly believes otherwise he should join DS in seeking out some professional help.

We barely speak two words to each other now. Him sleeping on the couch, me hiding in the bedroom. My question is, am I really so wrong? Am I projecting my own trauma onto someone else and refusing to see the truth. I suppose, I wonder, if you were me, what would you do?

I don't think you should be "taking her to the police" like other posters suggest. she is an adult who used been abused and she needs to be able to make her own decisions. Definitely right to reassure her you won't be against her if she does go to the police.

If you can provide links to counselors, domestic abuse charities or anyone who could independently support that might help as there won't be any power dynamic involved whereas your relationship will be complicated.

This is not going to be a popular view, and i will probably get slated for this. But, they are adults and Im sure she didnt ask for your permission before getting into a relationship with your DS. You cant be held responsible for another adults actions. Tell her to report to the police and leave it at that. I wouldnt get involved in the mess that they have created, and neither should your dh. Minimum contact with your ds as he has a mean streak and leave it at that. As adults weve got enough of our own shit to deal with without having to deal with another adults shite. You are not responsible for your sons actions. I wouldnt take sides. She is an adult.

If A doesn't want to involve Police then that is the end of that. She might be afraid of him and what he would do in this circumstance and quite honestly, she has a point. He sounds dangerous.

I think all you can do is ask DH to sit down and have a proper discussion. Tell DH that you are done with DS, not just because of what he has done to A (she is not lying) but for everything else and this is just the cherry on top. If you present this as only 1% of the overall issue and the final straw, it will take away his argument.

Of course this is, in reality a good 60% of the issue but given his personality (that you absolutely can see right through) it was only a matter of time before he fucks up massively.

In the event DH won't agree with your stance, you have a bigger problem but given time, DS will create yet another problem, just as a result of who and what he is so it's just a matter of time.

My first boyfriend used to smoke. When I was just turned 19, I started to pull away from him (for a variety of reasons) and this made him frustrated with me.

We were at my house and he lit a cigarette with a match and put the hot match head on my upper arm. I squealed as he had never done that before and Mum saw him do it out of the corner of her eye. Mum went completely crazy. The roof came off. She was screaming in his face to get out and leave us all alone. If she ever saw him again she would call the Police etc etc. I have never seen her so angry. Absolutely purple in the face and throwing things at him (plates, library books, a can opener - whatever was to hand) as he retreated out of the door, not helped by the fact that our dog was joining in and trying to bite him for good measure. Mum's gone now but I was grateful for the immediate nuclear attack.

So all you’re suggesting is therapy? And your DH is saying no? But he’s been ok with all the times he’s had therapy on the past so why not this time?

I am sorry that you have had this experience of your DS, and that A brought it to your attention must mean that she trusts you.
I do think you need to escalate this to the police, even if A is not involved, so that there can be a paper trail for Claires law in case anything like this happens in future, to protect other women.

This is answered twice in the OP.

2 years.

I would believe her.
I think your dh is in denial especially if he knows ds has a mean streak.

This is an extreme attack on a vulnerable woman. She is vulnerable because she shas no other support network in place.

I believe if she hadn't have come to you the abuse would have escalated by increasing how often it happens and the intensity of violence he inflicted on her.

I think she has shown courage by talking to you, per perpetrators mother.

Please help her make a police report if she later changes her mind. She could help save future women. If she doesn't want to make a report, that is understandable.
Although your son won't see it, you could be helping him before things go to the point of no return if it fits get reported.

Think you for believing her.

I would be worried for the dog living with him. Alot of abusers hurt animals.
As I read this comment, I looked at my three dogs living down at my feet and had a horrible feeling that I get at thought of animals being hurt.

Your DH is never going to believe your son did anything bad and you won't be able to convince him and he thinks you are making a huge deal out of nothing because your son would never do anything like that. If A won't go to the police and they have permanently split up there is really nothing more you can do about it. At the very least your son has some very unpleasant sexual requirements at worst he's a danger to women, at least your husband should be able to agree to the former or would he think that sort of violent sex that your son admitted to was OK?

Quite a few, if they’re into the humiliation kink. I don’t get it myself - it’s a subset of D/s that turns me completely cold. I once talked to a sub who described it as transformative - the degradation peeling back layers of civilisation to leave bare their raw, vulnerable core. So, theoretically, I get it, even if I don’t understand it because it doesn’t do that for me (if someone called me a pathetic, whining little bitch or piggy-whore I’d kick their nads in!).

It takes a lot of maturity and experience to play around with degradation play though, as it affects the psyche on a much deeper level than some tie-and-tease or even discipline/primal play. You’ve got to be constantly checking in with your partner, making sure it’s not going too far. It’s also the area where most predators pretending to be Doms like to work, as there is a higher proportion of damaged subs here too.

If your son had got the play wrong, I’d fully expect him to be distraught. Regardless of which area of D/s you are into, the sub is the one who holds all the cards. The sub draws the picture (of where their limits lie), and the Dom chooses how it gets coloured in. The Dom’s enjoyment comes from fulfilling their sub’s needs - not in taking what they want from someone too weak to stop them. That’s the line.

I’m inclined to think your son crossed it. He should be abjectly remorseful of that and be doing anything he can to repair any harm he’s caused her, rather than pushing blame onto her.

She's not a stranger.
You son isn't facing facts imo.

Am so so very sorry, the poor lass and I really feel for you too.

How terrible for you. I don't believe the cigarette burns are part of a kink. That's just taking it way too far

Your mum was a lioness 💕 xx

This 1000%

To call A a stranger is cold and uncaring.

Your DH is using emotional manipulation on you op, sleeping on the sofa and barely talking to you, he's withdrawing from you so that you will give in and drop it.

Jesus fucking Christ I sincerely hope you don't have daughters. And if you have sons.. well, enough said! What a wonderful mother in law you'd be

Okay my initial reaction if they were kink related is that he would probably have some kind of proof? A text referring to it? Something at least? If I was going to put a cig out on someone I would want written consent, but even if he didn’t think that far ahead surly there would be something, somewhere mentioning it?

At the end of the day, he’s your son and if you instinctively believe her then that’s very telling. I’m sorry for you and that poor girl.

Was that the end of the relationship @TheCobbleCreekMonster ?

You need to ask the girl about the dog: does he abuse the dog or treat it unkindly? Abusers usually start with animals and then escalate to human beings. Any abuse, please report to the RSPCA immediately. Physical or mental abuse is a criminal offence under The Animal Welfare Act.

I think you need to take her to the police. Even if they have some kink interests there are things you cant consent to.

Id believe her, she could have just left him. She could have called the police but she ran to his parents.

It would sit badly with me that humiliating her is something "we both like" id leave it to her but id support her.

OP have i understood this correctly or is there a typo somewhere. DS is 21 and GF is 24 and have been together for 2 years. So DS was 19 and she was 22?

I know it's not a big age difference but at that stage in life it does make a big difference. 19 is still quite young and impressionable.

I would try and investigate a bit more if i were you. Unfortunately this kind of kingly is quite common now. Personally find it disgusting but yes it is very possible.

First of I can’t praise you enough for being in this woman’s corner. For her to know you believe her over her abuser EVEN when the abuser is your own son reinforces to her what happened to her is not her okay.

How I’d handle your husband is this: play devil’s advocate with him and ask him “okay let’s say DS is telling the truth, even then that means he sourced a girl with rock bottom confidence with which to engage in this questionable behaviour. To do it in a 100% consenting scenario is one thing, but with a girl who struggles with self esteem issues? That’s still a whopping red flag whichever way you slice it.” Then I’d follow up with “what do you propose our reaction should be if 10 years down the line this ain’t a short term early girlfriend but a wife with your very own grandchildren in tow?”

Personally I don’t think you could have been anymore right in your approach here. Enabling your son is not the move here. He needs to hit his own rock bottom that his attitude towards other people is very wrong. THEN you are in a position as parents to step in and support him. However doing anything else risks putting off that day and letting him wreck his own life further.

For what it’s worth I feel deeply sorry you have to face all this, but you are doing the sorts of things I hope I would be strong enough to do were I in the same position.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this situation.
Your DH sounds in denial and probably needs a stern talking to about being a united front in marriage, the evidence is significant and him burying his head in the sand won't help - he needs to back you. Otherwise he risks looking as misogynistic as your son.
The injuries were not a kink, this is a common excuse abusers make and bloody police often believe!

I have answered a similar response. There were text messages. DH and I have seen some of them.
He wrote to her about things he would do - "using her as an ashtray", to be specific - if she did not listen to him. There was no consent in any of these messages. Simply him telling her what he would do, what she would be expected to "take", or else. Is "Yes sir" indicative of her enjoying this?
I'll be frank - I don't care about this kink bullshit. Or about consent or not. Putting out cigarettes on a woman's arms and thighs, urinating on her, beating her breasts, leaving bruises and marks are abusive acts. It does not matter if one or both involved individuals are aroused by this depravity.

She sounds like a somewhat vulnerable and isolated young woman who may have gone along with some fairly extreme stuff (cigarette burns really, really hurt, ex smoker who's had an accidental one or two) to please your son. Thankfully she's had the good sense to break free.

All you can do for her OP is give as much support as possible and leave the offer open to go to the police or other services with her if she wants, it has to be her call. I'm pretty certain your son will not be receptive to therapy or anything else from what you've said (he doesn't think he's done anything wrong and doesn't care) and your main issue is with your husband. Perhaps getting him to talk to someone about the situation might help, they might get through to him.

Good luck and good wishes

This is way more than a mean streak though - it’s violent, coercive behaviour that could conceivably develop into worse.

It’s also quite possible that he will, or even already has done, harm the dog.

A friend of mine was violently attacked by her boyfriend, who threatened to kill her. She got out. But here’s the thing: it turned out that he had a previous conviction for beating up a previous girlfriend, and the family knew, yet never once gave my friend any clue that she should take care of her safety with him. They hoped that it wouldn’t happen again, but of course it did - because it was him and not the woman, who was the problem.

I find their lack of concern for any future girlfriend unforgivable: she had spent time at their home and had never once been given any information at all. Clearly you’d have been on the family’s side.

I'm not sure but it seems you've never liked your son since childhood and have always liked his gf . I'd ask the girl if she wants to go to the police , if it's really happened as she says then she will .

Why do you think your son is like he is ? I find it sad when someone says they've had a 'difficult' relationship with their child . It must affect the way that child ends up .