to want to carry on working so I do not end up doing childcare?

[skizz]

I mentioned to my DC that I was thinking about retiring, just exploring options, nothing even decided yet. Their immediate response was along the lines of “oh that would be perfect, you could help with childcare, school pickups, when they are ill, that sort of thing.”

I actually do not want to give up work and slide into being on-call childcare. I like working. I like having my own routine, my own space and my own independence. The idea that any flexibility automatically gets translated into availability for childcare does not appeal to me whatsoever.

I have friends who do regular childcare for their grandchildren and honestly they are constantly picking up bugs, dealing with sickness, plans being cancelled last minute because a child is ill. It looks absolutely exhausting. It is not how they imagined retirement but they got railroaded into it by their daughters/DILs.

I would rather keep working than be doing childcare.

I'm older than@skizz and have two grandchildren of primary school age living very close to me.
For a while I did all the morning school runs but now DD has organised her working life so that she WFH most of the time and can usually do both ends of the day as she doesn't spend time commuting and doesn't take a lunch break.
She knows that I'm happy to take them in if she needs to go in early, or to pick them up if she has to go into work, but I'm not the everyday workhorse of a grandmother than so many people seem to become. No criticism of those women if it's what they want to do, but it isn't for me.
My DD prefers to be able to do the school runs, they're her children and she wants to be with them when it's practical - it's also better for her to be helping with homework as she has a much better idea of what they're expected to do in terms of reading, spelling and maths.
I also babysit, sometimes once a week but variable.

Which is why I said I “hope” I have more grace for my own kids. I am hopeful that will be the case but I acknowledge I won’t know until it happens. Maybe I will also become embittered and resentful by daily life and in my old age I will decide I would rather continue working than spend time with my grandchildren in order to help out the adult children I decided to have 🤷‍♀️

Sounds like awful parents enabled by their own.

😱

I would just be honest with them from the start, I’d say I’m looking forward to retiring but I will not be doing any childcare, I know this might disappoint you but while I’m still in good health I want the freedom to enjoy myself. It might come as a surprise to them and they may be upset but hopefully they are reasonable people and will understand.

The main thing about your post is that you have young teens. So did the OP at one point. 4 of them. I hope she has the grace to ignore your ungraceful post.

Honestly posts like this drive me mad.

First of all, if you don’t want to do it, just tell them or set some boundaries. If you have a lot of grandchildren and can’t divide care in a fair way that works for you too, then just say.
If you want to do one day a week, or a month or whatever. Just say that.

Second, things are so much harder now. I have a child in nursery, I get the 30 free hours and the bill is still higher than my mortgage. The fees are double what they were when my youngest started, and nearly every other bill I have has doubled. I couldn’t have planned for this cost of living mess.
After school club is expensive. The kids don’t want to be there, but I don’t have a choice. They’re not asking you just to get a freebie, it’s because it’d genuinely be a godsend.

Also, you started this family? It doesn’t just end with you. I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to help, even if it was just for one day out of seven? We have help from grandparents and it’s totally led by them. They offered without asking, they set the days and we work around them (they go on holiday etc when they want). It’s only 1 day a week and the odd school pick up but the kids love it, and it saves me about £300 a month and a slice of my sanity. I am so grateful to them.

When you’re older and you need some extra help, do you expect they will look after you? How would you feel if they decide they’re too busy to see you?

Sorry this has turned into a rant, but honestly, why are we so self centred nowadays?
You started a family, unless they’re totally toxic and bloody awful, why would you avoid retiring just to get out of childcare. It’s insane behaviour. Set your boundaries.

I sort of get it in that grandparent childcare is more normalised now. I've got several friends that claim they would not have been able to stay in their jobs without free childcare so I can see why some people have started to feel entitled to it.

I still think it's entitled to expect free labour from a person. I'm not liking this idea that motherhood should define your entire life in that way. I love my kids and being a mum but it's really really restrictive. It's not unreasonable for someone to raise their kids to adulthood and then want to prioritise other areas of their life.

My husband was far better than me at changing nappies at the start. He came to all the nursery visits when we had to chose one. He took reduced hours to do childcare when I was earning more, MIL did most of our family childcare outside of nursery (one day a week and occasional overnights) , along with my dad (song time, soft play, school pick ups) Husband phoned his mum to arrange that and dropped them off. I liaised with my dad. Both were amazing and still are when it came to our kids. Didn’t find it any sort of sacrifice. Both also live massively fulfilled lives. Doesn’t quite fit your narrative does it @skizz

If it drives you mad don't participate then.

Simple advice - just tell them and set boundaries. This is what my friends but it crept up over time and now it has taken over their lives. There are so much greater expectations and judgements of grandmothers as opposed to grandfathers. Women are criticised when they do not wish to do childcare - I regularly see posts on the mumsnet where women are complaining their MIL or DM won't help them.

Yes I did start the family. The DC are all married with families of their own. Do I now be responsible for helping out with 9 grandchildren because things are much harder now? DC are not asking for odd school pick up. They want regular school pick ups and my DD wants me to look after baby several days a week if I retire.

Is it self centred to not want to provide care of a baby several days a week and do several school pick ups? Just because I created the family means I now have to help with the 9 grandchildren?

Maybe tell your kids that you will have a regular hobby, go on daycations, spend time in the gym, join Bookclubs, etc and will only be available for emergency childcare. Hopefully, they will take a step back and respect your position.

Great for your nappy changing husband. It doesn't change the fact that more grandmothers do childcare than grandfathers and there are greater expectations of grandmothers to do childcare than grandfathers.

I think the issue is your children’s presumption you will do any school runs. There’s been some good advice given on how to politely put that assumption correct.

FWIW my parents have only ever done one school pick up for me and that was when I was in labour with my second child. Both sets of grandparents live nearby, 3/4 are retired but we don’t expect them to do school runs for our children and have never once asked. I do see some grandparents on the school run and if they’re happy to help then great but you have very good reasons (ones I think I may feel when I finally retire) not to.

Says who though? It happened in my world. So who’s to say it’s not happening everywhere? Same with my sister. Dad did loads of childcare for her. Drove 15 miles two mornings a week to take kids to school so parents could go to demanding jobs. Her MIL and FIL also stepped in. Full on, hands on. And SHOCK HORROR they also had elderly parents to care for. And also…shocking…are the most energetic and socially engaged 70 year olds I’ve ever known. Hill walkers, party animals, always doing stuff. But also have tons of time for their 7 grandchildren

YOUR world.

Most women on mumsnet talk about the mum or MIL providing childcare not their fathers or fathers in law.

So many posters determined to argue the point that grandparents should be fully available and engaged, wanting to be fully involved.
Clearly the entitlement is rife here.
Grandmothers owe their children their retirement!

OP, plan very carefully and don't give them a hint of your plans. Your daughter is determined to commandeer your retirement.
You really do not owe it to anyone.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/womenshouldertheresponsibilityofunpaidwork/2016-11-10

Women carry out an overall average of 60% more unpaid work than men, ONS analysis has shown.

ONS analysis of time use data shows that women put in more than double the proportion of unpaid work when it comes to cooking, childcare and housework.
On average men do 16 hours a week of such unpaid work, which includes adult care and child care, laundry and cleaning, to the 26 hours of unpaid work done by women a week.

Even women are criticising other women for not wanting to do childcare.

Words like selfish, mean and embittered are used for older women who do not wish to do childcare. When are these words used for men?

Never, thats when.

Yeah. And Mumsnet is a microcosm of opinion and not demographically representative

OP what’s the update on your own situation? Is that sorted now?

From following so far it seems that you know that you can have boundaries, even if friends of yours have apparently struggled with that. You’ve decided to continue working part time and maybe also start a business. You’ve told your children that you won’t be looking after the baby a couple of days a week or doing school pickups and that you’re not really keen to do even ad hoc childcare in case it escalates. How was that received? Everyone okay? I assume you also suggested during those conversations that they could consider asking their dad to help instead? Did they push back on that and say they only expect the women of the family to help with childcare? Are you keen to find other ways you can help them with what sounds like cost of living pressures or you prefer to leave them to it?

Edited as quoted wrong post

What’s that to do with grandparents though? They aren’t even in there?

I never ever felt in any way entitled to any help with my children, who I had later in life, interrupting a ‘career’ in a good job. I quote career as I now realise it was a job which could have been done by anyone. My role as a mother couldn’t. However, my dad, and in laws, stepped in so I could continue to work in that job as it earned money for our family. Part time was my choice. So I could be with my babies as the grew. A lucky choice. We have a modest home and modest holidays. My mother didn’t particularly help. Even when she she had weekends or evenings free. She wanted to fit ‘her grandchildren’ around ‘her time’. We’re now through that tricky period. Kids older, im back full time and we don’t need help when we once did. Guess who the grandkids love the most.

I suspect those words are coming from women with childcare needs who are thinking about their needs, not the needs of their parents. Exactly the type of DD/DILs your friends are talking about. And yes, it's all on the women.

They may well change their tune when they are the ones being expected to stop their lives for grandchild care later.