DH has reneged on post nup he had promised (pre marriage) he would enter into to protect family inheritance

[mamato3rascals]

Before we got married c 8 years ago, I had said to my DH (financè at the time) that I’d want a pre nup to protect a significant family business, and other inherited assets, that would likely be passed down to me. The value of the inheritance will be significant and so with my sensible hat on I am keen to protect that in any way I can.

For a number of reasons that prenup wasn’t entered into before we married, but he discussed with my Dad and gave him his word (and he did likewise with me) that he’d enter into it in future before any interest passed to me as part of the family’s estate planning. This has been looming a while but we are now at the time where this needs sorting. I have tried and tried to speak to my DH but he is always busy (though I am the main breadwinner, by some way…), explains his fear that I’ll take the family house off him (the post nup leaves the entire family home to him exclusively - valued at £900k and minimal mortgage) and leaves me with a small property rental and ensures that any interest in the family’s wealth remains my asset).

He is so apprehensive about entering into it that he called my dad outright a couple of weeks ago and asked him what he was expecting my DH to do. This is something I’m driving because (a) we are in a bad place and have been for a few years and (b) I can’t bury my head any more and need this sorted. My father was cross at the phone call as he was caught off guard, and on reflection why such reluctance now to discuss with Dad - when he left it years ago on the basis he’d sign something.

He won’t discuss it with me, when I go into his office at night to ask whether he will engage with me on it he tells me to get out, he is exhausted and doesn’t have time to talk about it let alone look for a solicitor that will advise him on it (I’ll pay all of those fees) and ends up putting noise cancelling headphones on with music blaring until I go out. If I stay there he says that he will lock his office door so he is left in peace.

I am at my wits end and had always said to myself that I can put up with his treatment at home (the above being an example) but am so concerned that this is the final nail in the coffin of my marriage (3 young DC under 7, one of which is extremely anxious and constantly worried so I don’t know what a separation would do to her).

If I were to bring our divorce papers I am almost certain he would start to engage - but what concerns me is these post nups are only valid for 5 years and need to be kept under review every 5 years. If he won’t engage now then god help me in 5 years’ time again.

Please be kind as I am worried sick but appreciate any advice. I’ve even considered initiating a divorce for purely financial separation whilst continuing to live long term under the same roof - I am willing to give the marriage everything I have got but the financial worry I am carrying is killing me. I think he expects that he will fail to engage and it will all go away because I’ll get bored of chasing him but fundamentally this is such a U turn from what he promised me before we got married that I am not sure I could ever get over it.

Well I could as easily say what evidence do you have for it apart from “you’re happy your wife outearns you” ?

As I said, not every man is unhappy about it but I’ve heard enough stories and seen it go sour frequently enough to notice a pattern.

No, I’m not going to go try digging for evidence or news stories on this or go out knocking on doors asking people to complete a survey, just like I’m not going to ask you to do that either to “prove” your position.

It’s MN, these are both just opinions and that’s fine.

Considering the patriarchal society we live in and how it has been the norm for many years (Although that’s changing now) for husbands to out earn their wives it’s not a stretch to think some men may be upset at their wife out earning them and that can lead to certain behaviour from them.

It seems your own position and experience is making you unable to think beyond that.

Well I could as easily say what evidence do you have for it apart from “you’re happy your wife outearns you” ?

You could also read about "burden of proof"

What about “burden of proof”?

Go provide your own “evidence” if you want to but I won’t, again it’s mumsnet - not a criminal or civil court.

The reason you won't provide any evidence is because their isn't any, at least none outside of your imagination.

Burden of proof is a philosophical and scientific tenet. It might be "mumsnet", but that doesn't mean you can go around making stupid claims and then when someone calls you out, pretend its on them to prove you wrong, e.g.,

Idiot: I think the world is flat.
Non-idiot: That's not true
Idiot: PROVE IT!

Again this could apply to you - why won’t you provide evidence despite you demanding it of others? I don’t think it’s necessary in this context to say beyond my own experiences and what I’ve observed.

You are the one that seems to want more. So you first. Prove there’s evidence beyond “your imagination” to use your words.

I wasn’t the original poster that made the claim. What happened is someone ( @MineThineYom ) made a post expressing their opinion and you challenged it drawing upon your anecdotal experience which is fine.

I then counter- challenged what you said also drawing upon anecdotal evidence.

We have all just stated our opinions. that it’s that’s all. None of us have to provide any “evidence” beyond that . It’s MN.

But if you want to try - go ahead. It’s up to you.

I know a woman IRL who had a 2 year affair , left the martial home and moved in with her new boyfriend for 7 months while the divorce was going through- didn’t contribute to the marital income or kids upkeep and still wants >50% of the marital assets ( she is the lower earner ) so she probably will get it , correct in law - but morally not correct- she having her cake and eating it

You are the one that seems to want more. So you first. Prove there’s evidence beyond “your imagination” to use your words.

(sigh) Burden of proof.... I'm not the one making the claim.

I didn’t make the claim first either (sigh) and actually in refuting what the poster said you essentially made your own claim. However, it actually really doesn’t matter who made the claim or not first 😂 It’s just a Mumsnet discussion not court proceedings!

If you want to “prove it” with other evidence you can still do so, if you want to! If not - don’t. Who cares.

But no you don’t get to demand I or anyone else does. Well you can demand all you want tbf but you’re not entitled to it particularly when you’ve not provided evidence for what you’ve said.

Well from the details you provided yes that sounds morally incorrect of that woman and if you think that - I’m sure you understand it would also be morally incorrect for OP’s husband to go for that, which was my main point.

Also btw your example dialogue below is weak. Complete misrepresentation of the discussion.

Idiot: I think the world is flat.
Non-idiot: That's not true
Idiot: PROVE IT!

The “idiot” in your example would be opposing a large body of scientific research on this subject in expressing this opinion. They would be challenging a generally accepted scientific position.

That’s not what’s happened here. The poster who made the comment about what they feel often happens when women out earns men isn’t saying something that contradicts widely held scientific evidence. It’s very much debatable.

But even if in that example if you think the “idiot” is oh so foolish to say the earth is flat. why not first provide evidence to disprove their statement instead of just bleating “prove it” and “burden of proof”.

Also if you are trying to position yourself akin to the “non-idiot” in your example dialogue you didn’t just say “thats not true”. You said (paraphrasing) : that’s stupid! Show me more evidence.

So in fact YOU were the first one to basically say “prove it”. So maybe consider the fact you are evidently NOT the non-idiot in your own example…

I essentially said neither of us need to “prove it” beyond our anecdotal experiences.

That aside, in reality there’s not a research study available for every single topic.
I haven’t looked and won’t be looking 😆but it’s very possible there’s not heaps of empirical data which either prove OR disprove either of our stances.

However that doesn’t mean someone can’t express opinions on an online forum based on patterns they’ve observed or experienced.

It’s deliberately myopic to not consider the initial point in the context of structural inequalities and prejudices which exist. In a patriarchal society with the historical prejudices and societal expectations that still persist, it’s hardly wild to think that many men could react badly to this.

He sounds absolutely awful OP don’t hang around and waste your life with this loser. Start divorce proceedings asap

The point I was trying to make is the morals and the law don’t necessarily align, a person may be a shit husband or wife- but the law won’t see that- just what people are entitled to

That aside, in reality there’s not a research study available for every single topic.

You've answered your own question. Scientists are smart enough to not waste their time investigating stupid questions that are extremely unlikely to be true.

That is true about morals and law not

always aligning. I’ll agree with that.

So you were asking for “evidence” on a “stupid question” you think there’s no data on. Grand. Lol.

Okay anyway for the reasons I’ve stated above and won’t bother repeating yet again (the patriarchy, my own observations etc ) I think my position is likely to be true.

And btw it’s really quite a balanced view I expressed, I said : “That’s great and there are many men like you, but also tbf there are many men who do react badly to it.”

However, ultimately if you don’t believe that because we haven’t provided “evidence” beyond anecdotal, again - that’s fine.

My point is simply - I (or anyone else) can just as easily disregard your position and point out you too have provided no “proof” beyond your anecdotal evidence.

So yeah I won’t back down from stating my opinion that’s been informed by own experiences and observations because : bloke on MN claims they are happy for their wife to out-earn him.

The same way you’re able to express your opinion on MN without citing research data, others are too.

This guy is sea-lioning. Don't bother wasting your time or energy on him. Let him blather emptily to the moon.

https://medium.com/@ElaineStead/sealioning-1448061bb73a

I know right, I’m done lol 🤦🏽‍♀️

Thanks for that link- so interesting! I’d never heard of sealioning before but yeah it makes so much sense! 😂

Yes, it's a tedious strategy. The best thing to do with these freaks is to show them the wall.

point out you too have provided no “proof” beyond your anecdotal evidence.

(sigh)

In science, the burden of proof lies with the person making a claim, requiring empirical evidence to support it rather than forcing others to disprove it. The default position, or null hypothesis, is assumed true until rigorous, reproducible evidence indicates otherwise. Extraordinary claims require stronger evidence

Burden of Proof (science)

I would seek advice from a Solicitor about divorce proceedings. Your parents need to consider and think about putting their assets into some sort of trust to protect their assets from your soon to be ex-husband. Your parents definately need to think about their wills carefully. You all need legal advice and fast. Your divorce proceedings can take many years, especially as he sounds like the type to string things out.

Hello OP. I'm sorry that you're having such a rough time of it.

I am wondering about something. I appreciate that it's beneficial to talk to people here on MN in order to get feedback and support, but wouldn't you be much better off spending your time and money with a really good lawyer? You clearly need to get the inheritance situation sorted out quickly now, but you also appear to be heading towards divorce. It is clear that an awful lot is at stake financially.

You need to get your ducks in a row. With help. Good luck.

Good advice! Actually I was out in a big town yesterday and driving back saw a huge street sign for inheritance planning solicitors. So it’s obviously high in people’s minds atm.

Wondering if the OP will update on what’s happening, this is a thread I’ve been keeping an eye out for. Should you choose not to, I hope things are settling and you’re doing well

I think you know what you need to do. A man who tells you to get out puts on noise cancelling head phones and loud music to drown you out is not a man you want to trust with your future. No wonder you have an anxious child when you are so deeply unhappy. Face it divorce him move on with your life. Do not give him a 900k house either. Get a solicitor and start living a proper life not this shell of a marriage.