To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

Also, the idea that children in 'better' schools (ie those frequented by fewer poors) are all saints who wouldn't touch drugs is absolutely laughable.

The people I know who had the most horrendous time at school are the ones who went to very expensive boarding schools.

They should never have got rid of the amount of grammars that they did . Grammars gave bright kids from tough areas a chance in life .

Where do people think 'tough areas' come from? Are they decreed by god?

Do people not understand cause and effect?

I feel similar - I attended by exam results the fourth worst state school in the country - my dads a bus driver and I became a high flying professional earning over 150k per year by age 32. None of these insufferable snobs even believe me. I cannot stand them! They have no idea what its like to go to these schools and one asked me ‘how I became an X if your dad is a bus driver’? I barely speak to any of them now. I actually elected to send my son to a private school far away from them all as I cannot stand their curtain twitching comparison at the local state school 🤣 which is elite in the sense it costs more to buy a house in the area. I love the mic drop when they ask which school catchment we are in and I have to say I dont know as we are going to a private school! LOL!

There's also something very middle class about pretending that roughness isnt a thing and that some kids are dangerous.

Some kids are dangerous. I imagine Prince Andrew was quite dangerous for example - who knows who he assaulted in his younger years?

'Roughness' is a product of middle class snobbery. Please tell me you can understand that basic logic.

You do know that there are schools in
between the poor performing ones and Eton, right? I managed to find an Outstanding school for my DC where no fees (outside of taxes) are charged.

I guess by your rationale, I should count my blessings that my DCs aren’t mixing with the cocaine-riddled poshos.

I genuinely don't understand your point sorry.

The comments are not fitting the vibe check here 😅.

Are you me or did we attend the same groups 😂?

I remember pledging to my daughter and sister I'd be more sociable at swimming, even though I found the parents a drag, but my God! I lasted 2 nights before fleeing back to the sanctity of my car.
If I had to listen to one more conversation about holidays and kitchen, I'd probably have pushed someone in.

Never before would I have imagined a group of professional women could be so utterly banal.

No surprise there.

Yep but who is going to sacrifice their child for the “greater good”?! Sure the champagne socialists that it sounds like @Gwst lives near will claim others should, but put their little darlings at the front line of social change? NFW!
Most people just want to get on and do their best by themselves and their kids. If parents had confidence that their children would be allowed to learn (and to live) safely without trouble (so the social systems of law, health and education being adequate) then diversity would follow naturally.
As an aside DCs private school is a much more diverse population than their old state school with families from all walks of life and a large non white population, who all want an environment for their kids where learning top of the agenda, actions have consequences and all the parents support the school rather than work against it. It’s an absolute travesty that there are not enough state schools in the area with the same values that so many feel they have to pay.

Well they sound horrible. But it's unfair to lump all middle class parents together.
I know many I am one, my friends are and now my daughter is . None of us are like the people you describe

@GwstSome of us don’t want a challenging comp for dc. I’d just quietly move elsewhere though. No need to say anything and if others love an area, great. We don’t all think the same. Although I don’t agree “working class” or “lower class” people should not make the same judgements too. Why should their dc put up with a challenging comp either?

This is the most honest post of the whole thread and I commend you for writing it.

@Gwst
I get the insufferable conversations on schools etc can be annoying but I want to let you know of what I experienced as going to a good / decent school matters and in particular the parents attitude to education.

When 1DC was in Y2 we relocated to a new area due to work. We were given the roughest school in the borough, there were 6 closer schools but they were all full in his year group. Every bit of data showed that this school was behind other local schools & the national average.

There were a lot of diverse families - Syrian refugees, immigrants from Brazil, Japan, Australia - these families were lovely and really got behind the school. The cohort that dragged the school down were the white British working class that didn't value education - so much effort and resource was put into these families. Just a small minority brought the school down.

My 1DC was there for a year, another spot opened up in a closer school but we had decided to move them to private school had nothing happened within a 14 months. We decided this because:

• The rough parents were very aggressive and a really poor example of what being a functioning adult should look like
• There was a fight between 2 families at the school gate
• A police officer had to stand at the school gate for a few weeks to ensure it didn't kick off again
• There was a knife incident in Y6, thankfully no one was hurt. They brought it in 'for a laugh'

I would avoid sending my DC to a school like this at all costs.

I live in an area with shit schools. I am not going to sacrifice my kid's education so we had no option but to send to a private school. I'd rather not but there is no way on earth, my kids are going to be in a classroom where the teacher's main objective is classroom management instead of teaching.

Where do you think the 'challenging' bit comes from???

From how people speak you'd think it just happens out of nowhere. What actually happens is that a school has a bad ofsted result for some reason, it gets seen as a 'bad school,' parents who have the means to avoid it avoid it, house prices drop in the area, the school struggles to attract teachers, the schools gets worse, and so on and so on.

Headteacher Ruth Perry killed herself because she knew that a bad ofsted report would set the middle class parents off and she'd be ruined.

In society riddled with class snobbery, labelling a place rough is a sure-fire way to destroy it.

Please Classplain a little more

I went to a shit school as a quiet child with glasses, the area my parents live in wasn't deprived but lots of areas around it were. I hated it, I was bullied, I was beaten up. Most lessons disrupted by poor behaviour and fights were regular occurrences. I hated every second and I came out with ok GCSE's but I'm sure if I went elsewhere where teachers could actually teach lessons without constant abuse and bad behaviour (I was in the top sets as well) I might have done better.

I don't want my kids to go to a school like that, in fact we've just moved house and this was one of the main reasons. I don't want my kids to go through that! I know I can't guarantee they won't but I can certainly try by getting them into a good school.

It is difficult to respond without knowing where you live. I have lived in various areas of London and burbs and in many areas knives, drugs are a real and serious problem, in some classes are streamed but in classes which are not streamed around 80 percent of the class could be not engaging (for many many reasons) and it is extremely difficult to learn in those conditions. Statistically private schools are going to be streets ahead in academics, it really is as simple (and unacceptable in my view) as that. State schools will have changed significantly since you were at school. Right now there seems to be a trend for extreme punishment ie detentions for everything under the sun be it a forgotten pencil or a tie not straight which raises stress levels. Raised stress levels due to noise,

It shouldn't be like this. Academic standards in state schools should be far higher, but are atrocious because of "progressive" idealogy being popular for most of the last 50 odd years. Behaviour management should be informed by research and it isn't, but is more likely to be along those lines in private schools (not always the case obviously).

But I agree with you that comments like "the mothers have a can in one hand and a fag in the other and have 10 kids are appalling, as it is suggesting that most people in deprived areas, or are poor, are bad parents which is rubbish.

I think the concerns expressed about state schools are more about safety, learning, mental wellbeing than to do with social climbing

Social problems associated with private schools are things like both parents workaholic professionals, no supervision or guidance, kids have time and money to abuse on drugs and alcohol so it isn't as though you can send your kids there and just let them get on with it either, ha.

💯

I know cause and effect and I am not middle class, but I also know I didn't have the privilege of chancing it.

I have one child who I wasn't prepared to make an experiment of my usual principles, so I fought hard to get her into the best school for her. These schools weren't without issues, but they best suited her and she's done well.

To make up for that, I support community initiatives, volunteered as a reader in another school and helped my neighbours children with their homework.

Near me 3 teenagers have been murdered through gang violence. I have two boys and don’t think it’s that shocking that I would rather they didn’t attend schools where gang activity is common

Oh and I used to teach in a v deprived comp so I do have experience